Yawns and Kneejerks in America
Russian peacekeepers at an anti-aircraft gun in the disputed region of South Ossetia
Yesterday, after Russia sent reinforcements to back up its peacekeepers under seige by the Georgian army in the tiny disputed territory of South Ossetia, Arizona Senator and Republican Presidential candidate John McCain denounced the move as "Russian aggression" against Georgia. Nevermind that it was the Georgian army which launched the offensive that ignited the present round of fighting, and thousands of refugees have been streaming out of South Ossetia into Russia in the last few days.
The reported death toll of over 1,400 is the worst the region has seen since 1992. In that year, the Soviet Union was formally dissolved, and South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both regions with strong ethnic ties to compatriots in Russia, were ceded to Georgia within their Soviet-drawn borders. After the U.S. and NATO countries recognized the independence of Kosovo in early 2008, the South Ossetians and Abkhazians decided that they could declare their independence from Georgia, which has sparked the recent violence.
UPDATE - August 10, 2008 Welcome, Instapundit and Little Green Footballs readers! Please click here to read Russia Blog contributor Patrick Armstrong's excellent post responding to LGF blogger Charles Johnson. Click on the extended post to read the author's response to some of the questions and comments written elsewhere about this post.
Georgian troops in a truck on their way to the front
Russia Versus Georgia: A Return to "Frozen" Conflict Likely
What remains to be seen now is whether or not the situation will return to the previously "frozen" status quo, to be decided by negotiation, or if both sides will push for a military solution. As with the case of Israeli interventions in Lebanon, Russia has little desire to occupy territory. A march on Tblisi remains extremely unlikely. Contrary to some Western commentators cherished myths, Russia is not out to restore the Soviet Union, and Estonia and Latvia do not have to fear that they are next in line for Russian military intervention. To call Russia "revanchist" and to imply that South Ossetia or Abkhazia is the modern equivalent of the Nazi march into the Sudetenland, a pretext for fascist expansion which must be nipped in the bud now to prevent World War III later, is sheer propaganda.
On the other side, Georgia's small army is not likely to be able to defeat the superior firepower and manpower Russia could call upon in a protracted conflict. Furthermore, unlike Georgia, Russia does not need to worry about the effect of war on the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline or losing its European Union membership bid over a war in the Caucasus. The economic losses for Georgia, however, in the form of remittances being cut off from Georgian migrant workers in Russia for months, could be severe. Hence, President Saakashvili's urgent appeals for Western aid, which is likely to be mostly symbolic. If Washington does decide to back the Georgians implicitly, there is likely to be more grumbling from Washington's European allies about how even a tiny, poor American ally gets to drag Washington around by the nose.
The Evolving U.S. Position
For now, America appears to be playing safe, supporting Georgia's territorial integrity, but also calling for a ceasefire at a time when Georgia has failed to dislodge Russian troops and separatists from South Ossetia. After Secretary of State Rice seemed to take a hard line against Russia yesterday, President Bush announced today that he supports a full ceasefire and the withdrawal of Georgian and Russian forces from South Ossetia, restoring the status quo of August 6. American diplomacy has predictably sought to keep Georgia in the fold as a U.S. ally while reining in its offensive, while also insisting that Russian troops quit South Ossetia. But American media coverage and commentary, to the extent that war in the Caucasus was mentioned at all on Friday instead of Democrat Senator John Edwards' extramarital affair, has often veered into sheer anti-Russian hysteria.
The Fog of War and the "Drive By Media"
CNN briefly portrayed Russia as the big red USSR while showing Americans where South Ossetia and Georgia are on the world map. Hugh Hewitt, one of the most popular conservative talk radio show hosts in America, cited a report on the air from Austin-based Strategic Forecasting Inc. asserting that Russia was using the Georgia campaign to intimidate all of the former Soviet republics. The report, Hewitt seemed to imply, suggested a master plan by the Kremlin to revive at least a rump Soviet Union through military might. Hugh Hewitt's guest, Larry Kudlow, a popular conservative commentator who hosts the highly watched "Kudlow and Company" TV show on CNBC, denounced "Czar Putin's power grab" and called Russian leaders "war criminals". A news announcer on the same national talk radio network erroneously reported that Russian forces had killed 1,400 people in the region, even though this was actually the number claimed by the South Ossetians as victims of Georgian shelling and bombs. Headlines on AOL news said, "Russia Invades Small Neighbor", which makes for a more dog bites man headline than, "Russia puts troops into small region invaded by former Soviet republic asserting sovereignty over disputed territory". The U.S. taxpayer funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty website published a ridiculous article by Echo Moskvy radio's Yulia Latynina, calling South Ossetia a "terrorist state" and comparing the region to the former Palestine Liberation Organization or current Hezbollah statelets in southern Lebanon -- as if the South Ossetians were sending suicide bombers and rockets into Georgia.
Why Do American Conservatives Uncritically Accept Media Coverage Of One But Not the Other?
All of this begs the question: why do so many Americans, conservatives especially, who normally proclaim their distrust the media, accept it so unquestioningly on the subject of Russia? After all, it isn't as if the same biases that lead many Americans to confess to pollsters that they have Obama fatigue from so many puff profiles of the superstar Democratic presidential candidate do not also affect coverage of foreign affairs in the U.S. In other words, a media tendency to focus on compelling personalities, like Vladimir Putin, rather than report on a complex country like Russia from the bottom up.
A Different View of Russia from Up Close
Not surprisingly, European papers in Germany and other places on the Continent, closer to Russia both geographically and economically, have been more willing to take a balanced view of the conflict than the Anglo-American media. The intellectually lazy, bipartisan Beltway party line that this war represents yet another case of "Russia bullying its neighbors" tends to prevail in U.S. commentary and analysis, rather than the idea that President Saakashvili may have grossly miscalculated by underestimating Russian resolve, or even thought that he had a green light from Washington to use force. It would not be the first time a U.S. ally, as in the case of Argentina's ill-advised invasion of the British Falkland Islands in 1982, caused a major headache for Washington.
Failure to Ask Hard Questions
Just because some countries are smaller than a neighboring big country with an imperial history doesn't always make them victims or "Davids" versus Goliath. The question never seems to be raised: what if Russia's neighbors are occasionally in the wrong? Were Ukraine and Belarus entitled to subsidized Russian gas at a quarter of the European price indefinitely? Is Georgia justified in forcing the issue of a separatist region with arms rather than negotiations? Should Poland host an American radar, supposedly designed to counter the Iranian missile threat, that can track anything in Russian airspace all the way to the Urals? Is Russia always doomed to be a nasty Bear roaming the woods looking for trouble?
Failure to Consider Double Standards
From Russia's perspective, how does it look to have NATO not only expanded into the Ukrainian heartland, but also to its southern border in Georgia? Would the U.S. be comfortable with a Chinese or Russian military advisors on the ground in Mexico and Venezuela? Or even just a radar base that could track every American aircraft all the way to the Canadian border? And why is it necessary to further humiliate a former adversary that remains a shadow of its former military might, but can cause significant trouble for America? Doesn't the U.S. have enough challenges in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, without making more enemies abroad?
The politically correct, bipartisan American rule seems to be that, no matter what Russia does, it must always be in the wrong. This naturally leads to such absurdities as saying Belarus is Moscow's puppet one week and a victim of "Kremlin energy imperialism" the next, simply because Minsk was no longer receiving dirt cheap oil and gas. If people are looking for more rational explanations of Russian behavior, than why not follow the money rather than presume that all Moscow wants to do is make trouble for the West for ideological reasons? This would include arms sales to Iran and Venezuela -- many Russian officials near the top personally profit from huge kickbacks for such deals, and to them, it's "just business", nothing personal -- even if America see it as a backstabbing, destabilizing move.
The "Ugly Russians" We're Stuck With
Clearly, Russia does not have vast reservoirs of economic vibrancy or pop culture exports to offset Russophobia and Cold War stereotypes. America, by contrast, can employ all of these tools, mostly in the hands of individual citizens, to counter anti-Americanism throughout the world. While Russia did not receive a stable economy or strong society from the Soviets, it did inherit a lot of messy, unresolved issues on its vast borders, and plenty of weapons for fighting. The brief Russo-Georgian war provides yet another glimpse of these "frozen" conflicts, and how much work remains to be done to resolve them. The best way to end mini-Cold Wars which occasionally turn hot is to give the peoples in question better things to do than fighting. Unlike in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, religion is not a major factor, as both sides are mostly Orthodox Christians, so economic development is the surest path to peace, rendering the borders less relevant in determining the fortunes of each region.
Time to Stop the Games, Before the Tables Are Turned
While politicians in the West can speak of "mediators", "honest brokers" and "the international community must act" all they like, Russia is going to continue to do what it thinks is in its national interest, in its own back yard, whether America and Europe like that or not. And if American leaders continue to play proxy games in the former Soviet Union, we may very well find Russian and Chinese oil men joining with Venezuelan strongman Hugo Chavez to cut the U.S. out of heavy oil deals in our own back yard, or Chinese troops training Venezuelan soldiers for "peacekeeping missions" in what the Monroe Doctrine had long presumed to be our own hemisphere. Worst of all, this pointless game of tit for tat could spill over into global financial markets, driving up oil prices for the West and China while spiking food inflation in Russia. That would present a lose-lose situation to everyone, spreading pain well beyond the Caucasus.
Charles Ganske is the co-founder and first fellow of the Real Russia Project and the former editor in chief of Russia Blog. The views expressed here are his own.
Refugees streaming out of South Ossetia to Russia. If the image looks familiar, it's because the Russian media is taking a page from Western media coverage of the Balkan wars in the 1990s. Russia does not want to look like Serbia did then.
UPDATE: August 10, 2008
From the Beltway to Tblisi: Does One Hand Know What the Other Is Doing?
By Charles Ganske
Editors note: In response to other bloggers (Instapundit and Little Green Footballs are, respectively, among the top ten and top fifty most trafficked blogs on the web) I decided to explain why I wrote the above, and to add a few other comments on the situation in the Caucasus.
Betraying Confidence: An Inexcusable Response from Washington
As I meant to imply by referring to the case of the Argentine junta attack on the Falklands, America is not to blame for the Georgian President Saakashvili's foolish actions, and the Kremlin should recognize this. However, the public disclosure of Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's alleged comment to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice about Russia seeking regime change in Georgia, even if Lavrov actually said it, is a disgrace. United Nations Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad was completely out of line in making it public at the UN. If attorney client privilege is important to individuals in a judicial system, how much more important is privileged and frank diplomacy between nations? How can we expect to reach peaceful settlements with other great powers if their foreign ministers' comments said in candid confidence hit the front page of The New York Times or The Wall Street Journal the next day?
It's not that Congressional Democrats can claim to be on top of Russia issues any more than Republicans these days -- but when is the amateur hour in Washington finally going to end? The U.S. Congress, dominated by the Democratic Party led by the American mainstream media's favorite, Senator Barack Obama, has single digit approval ratings and has mostly lost interest in Russia in an election year, while the lame duck Republican President George W. Bush polls in the upper twenties. Could the fact that every foreign policy matter becomes a partisan issue in Washington have something to do with this?
Pipeline Politics: Why the U.S. Has Become Involved in Georgia
The U.S. obviously has interests in the Caucuses, particularly since the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan (BKC) pipeline goes from Azerbaijan through Georgia east-west, then south through Turkey to the Mediterranean Sea. Georgia has also sent 2,000 troops to Iraq, and thus has collected some chits in Washington. Until recently, the Georgian government also employed a paid lobbyist who later became one of Senator John McCain's top foreign policy advisors. This however, is not to be mentioned in polite company among conservatives. The question remains: since when did being a conservative require turning off one's brain when it comes to the subject of Russia and deferring to talking heads and aging donors who cannot let go of the Cold War? And what does it do to America's already tattered image in Russia to see Georgian soldiers fighting Russian soldiers, while wearing uniforms identical to those of the U.S. Marines that were training them just two weeks ago?
What Should the U.S. Do Now?
America should do everything it can diplomatically to bring the conflict to a speedy conclusion. If Eisenhower was willing to cut off our closest allies, the British and French, over their invasion of the Suez Canal Zone at the height of the Cold War, then I think America should be able to tell Georgia that we are pulling out all American personnel and contractors. Russia and Georgia should immediately declare a genuine ceasefire, and not the kind of ceasefire Saakashvili claimed on Georgian television Thursday August 7, shortly before his army began lobbing rockets at South Ossetian towns. Of course, Russia responded immediately, as both sides had been preparing for war in the last several weeks. This is a war that Russian commentators predicted after the U.S. recognized the independence of Kosovo. Today, Tblisi can forget about ever getting South Ossetia or Abkhazia back, except, perhaps one day, through extended negotiations.
To Quote a Fellow Texan - We Have No Dog in This Fight
To quote President Bush 41's advisor James Baker, "we have no dog in this fight". Politicians who would cavalierly commit American blood and treasure to the Caucases while we are already engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan are doing the incredibly professional but overstretched American military no favors. I don't think any serious person who has closely followed U.S. foreign policy in the past few years would not have some serious questions about the limits of American power, or whether we should even get involved in some parts of the world where vital interests are not at stake. President Reagan intuitively understood when to reach out Gorbachev to end the Cold War, as well as when to get out of the civil war then raging in Lebanon.
Clinton/Bush - Abandoning the Reagan/Bush Legacy of Respect for Russia
Bush 41 similarly showed great restraint both before and after the Soviet Union collapsed, even though he was jeered by conservatives for making his 1991 "chicken Kiev" speech warning about the consequences of the volatile Soviet empire breaking up overnight. Those same conservatives today still claim that Putin lamented the collapse of the USSR in one of his 2005 speeches, rather than pointing out the "catastrophe" for millions of Soviet citizens impoverished and kicked out of their homes, as a result of ethnic conflict and the looting of previously state-owned industries. In spite of leaving his successor with a mess in Somalia, Bush 41 smartly enlisted Moscow's support for the First Persian Gulf War and kept the U.S. out of several bloody wars in the post-Soviet space.
President Clinton, however, spurred on by his hawkish Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, sent the 82nd Airborne to exercises in Central Asia without the participation of Russian troops --sending a signal to Russia that America ready and able to intervene in Moscow's back yard. Clinton also ordered the bombing of Yugoslavia, a divided country that unlike Iraq, did not have a history of sponsoring terrorism or attacking countries outside its previous post-WWII borders. The Bosnian Serbs committed horrific war crimes, but many Serbs opposed Milosevic's thuggish regime and wanted to topple him without NATO bombing their country. Clinton's commander on the ground, General Wesley Clark, had his order for NATO forces to seize the Pristina airport before the Russians arrived countermanded by the senior British Commander, Gen. Mike Jackson, who famously said "I'm not going to start World War III for you."
There is no question that ten years later, the Kosovo precedent is coming back to bite the U.S. and its NATO allies. Russian TV is showing atrocity videos of pitiful South Ossetian refugees and shelled towns that are eerily similar to images of Kosovar Albanians and Bosnian Muslims from the 1990s.
One Hand Out Asking for Moscow's Money
...and Another Slapping Moscow in the Face
Is it unreasonable to ask why the Bush Administration is asking Russia to invest more its sovereign wealth funds in America while continuing to provoke Moscow in its own backyard? I'm personally glad that the Poles are a part of NATO, as the Western powers had defense treaties with Poland and Czechoslovakia dating back to the rebirth of those nations following the First World War. But is putting a missile defense system in Poland, versus other regions which are also U.S.-friendly and much closer to Iran (i.e. Kurdistan or Bulgaria), really worth antagonizing Russia (not to mention the $500 million in military equipment loans Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski, a nice fellow I met once when he was at the American Enterprise Institute, is shrewdly insisting on)?
As one commenter on Pajamas Media blogger Richard Fernandez' website The Belmont Club has pointed out, Russia has had some kind of military presence in Ossetia (North and South) since 1802, the year after Thomas Jefferson became America's third president and one year before the great State of Ohio joined these United States. The shared history between Russia and Ukraine, by contrast, goes back to the baptism of Kievan Rus ruler Vladimir into Orthodox Christianity in the 9th century. Bringing Poland and the Czech Republic into NATO is one thing, while bringing Ukraine, a country with millions of people (especially in the historically strategic Crimea region) who still consider themselves to be Russian is another.
Why the Real Russia Project?
The gap between the horrible political relationship between the U.S. and Russia and our surging economic ties has become a chasm. This is why in 2005, a group of American businessmen in Washington State decided to support the Real Russia Project. Readers will search Russia Blog in vain for any mention of Discovery Institute's other programs or controversial topics. They are separate, and the people bringing them up are simply pointing to something irrelevant, and failing to debate the facts.
Some folks have been declaring a party line that modern Russia is the New Evil Empire for so long they are shocked when questioned at all. Even if Russia today is moving in a more authoritarian direction (and the unprecedented personal and economic freedoms Russians now enjoy suggest otherwise), is the present American foreign policy counteracting or accelerating this trend? Is America actually speaking out about the real human rights abuses that millions experience in Russia - petty corruption by police and officials, and the abuse of conscripts in the Russian army, or would it rather focus on more "celebrity" issues, like the fate of the jailed oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky? Does the view that Russians are brainwashed by their Kremlin-controlled media stand up to scrutiny when thousands of websurfing Russians can talk back to The New York Times online? These are the kind of politically incorrect questions someone needs to be asking, and that is why the Real Russia Project exists.
Charles Ganske is the co-founder and first fellow of the Real Russia Project and the former editor in chief of Russia Blog. The views expressed here are his own.
A Note to Commenters on Russia Blog
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Keep in mind that the borders of Georgia were set by the old Soviet Union, dominated by Russia. If the border should have been altered, they had 70 years in which to alter it.
This is another aggressive war, launched by Russia. Russia encouraged South O province of Georgia in rebellion, and now invade South O to prevent Georgia from shutting down the rebellion that Russia began.
The US should land the 82nd Airborne, with F-22 Fighters to protect Georgia airspace from the Russian aircraft. Old rusty B-52 bombers can carpet bomb the Russian assembly areas.
Aggression of Iraq on Kuwaitt was not allowed to stand. Aggression of Russia against Georgia must not be permitted either.
The cold war is on again. Thanks libs. You people will be stopped in America.
Finally! thank you for this clear and comprehensive view. Is it so difficult for (geo-)political analysts to show some "empathy"? I'm sick of the propaganda (through massive cultural domination you nailed it) and want to hope for better global understanding.
My heart is with Georgia; my head is saying, "well, would the recovery of the 'lost territories' by Russia be necessarily bad for the USA?" One thing Russia has been good at is holding down troublemakers with a heavy boot, and that region is rich in oil, gas, and trouble.
Damned if I know.
Russia once again proves itself to be the single greatest force of evil in all of world history.
@Don Meaker
Georgia was the aggressor here they deliberately declared peace just to use it as a smokescreen to indiscriminately attack S Ossetia killing hundreds of civilians and 10 Russian peacekeepers which was given to Georgia by Stalin an ethnic Georgian.
This was a deliberate provocation to get Russia involved for the pretext of the US can come in.
Maybe Russia should have got involved against US aggression in Kosovo and Iraq.
Russia will NEVER drop the pursuit of holding it's neighbors AND its own citizens in slavery.
Really, Russia can dress this situation up as she pleases, but ultimately, the interventionism and bloody adventurism is entirely on the Russian side.
Let's take the same circumstances, but reapply them, to see what I am talking about. Say that America had backed the anti-Russian, Chechan rebels. They didn't, but let's say they had. Let's say that they fully supported the Chechan efforts to break away from Russia.
To this end, they send "peacekeepers" into Chechnya, which Russia still considers its sovereign territory. Is that a provocation? Yes. Is lending moral and material support to the Chechans a provocation? Yes.
Let's say that after all this, the Russians bite and attack the American "peacekeepers". Clearly, that is what was always intended to happen. Now provided with an excuse, the USA invades Chechnya and attacks across the border into Russia.
Russia felt like it was a master puppeteer and (sadly) the Georgians, by attacking the peacekeepers, fell straight into their trap.
That doesn't mean that western media need be fooled, however.
I think all war is a very sad, sad thing. But I don't think that Russia is 100% in the wrong. Totally it seems to me, that the US media is really full of shit these days. I think it is so sad, that most of the people in my country will believe anything the TV force feeds them, hook, line, and sinker.
Honestly, the USA, can stand alone in the face of all other economy's in the world... I know your blog, says not... But, you are totally misunderstanding...
A. How worthless oil is going to be in a very short time.
B. The free market and life in the USA.
Which totally allows, such bullshit media... BUt, whatever...
Look, war is wrong. Russia is totally going to win this one.
Hopefully, we will win ours in Iraq.
Hopefully, the current Iranian, government can fall....
I seriously love my country, and I seriously do not see Russia as the cause here. There are too sides. I will not wholeheartedly believe the american media...
but, don't try to scare people, with your economic threats... they are wholeheartedly unrealistic...
peace
"Keep in mind that the borders of Georgia were set by the old Soviet Union, dominated by Russia"
Actually, _these_ borders were set by Joseph Stalin, who was a Georgian.
On Friday morning, Georgia used cluster munitions against the residents of Tshinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, killing 1400 of its residents. This is a war crime. Not an isolated act of ethnic cleansing that Stalin, Beria and other Georgian despots before Saakashvili have practiced, but a continuation of genocide. Congress should urge President Bush to break off relations with the Georgian regime and call for president Saakashvili's extradition to The Hague to be tried for war crimes against ethnic Ossetians and Abkhas. The spectre of genocide should not be allowed to rise over Transcaucausia again! God bless Russia for intervening to save the Ossetian people from the murderous regime of mad dog Mikheil Saakashvili. This son of a bitch talks beautifully, and yes, he is "our" son of a bitch, but do we really want to let him exterminate the Georgia's tiny Abkhaz and Ossetian ethnic minorities (90k + 70k in total) just to stick the Russians in the eye??? And don't forget, Ossetians are Christians!
After the U.S. and NATO countries recognized the independence of Kosovo in early 2008, the South Ossetians and Abkhazians decided that they could declare their independence from Georgia, which has sparked the recent violence.
Really? Russia's support is all about "fair and fair alike" given their acquiesence in Kosovo's declaration of independence?
Georgia engaged in an military strike in the South Ossetia region. In hindsite shelling Russian peacekeepers as well as civilians has been a huge mistake.
The South Ossetians obviously have strong ties to Russia and trying to gain back control should have been negotiated with the Russian Government and in the UN.
I suspect Russia has seized this opportunity to destroy Georgia's participation in NATO as they have opposed any Western influence in the Causican region.
If the US is really concerned about Georgia's sovereinty then the next few day's are critical as any form of military support will need to be on the ground supporting the Georgian military in key strategic area's.
I doubt there will be any military intervention from the UN nations.
It does leave the door open for Russia to supply military equipment via land to Iran and thus increase the likelihood of drawn out military engagement with the colalition forces if there is one.
For what it's worth, this American is appalled and disgusted by Saakashvili's irresponsible and disastrous forcing of Russia's heavy hand, which may have set all of us back very far from where we were up until this past Thursday, efforts of good faith made over many years. I'm against both US presidential candidates' advisers which would already have antagonized Russia needlessly, even without this escalating conflict. Russia is arguably more democratic and stable than, say, Pakistan, and definitely much more than those autocratic Central Asian republics we depend on for our Afghanistan mission, among other examples of our pragmatic compromises of principles. I don't know if I can forgive the extended consequences of the prideful actions of a benighted few if this sours the whole of East-West relations.
Re:From Russia's perspective, how does it look ......... Would the U.S. be comfortable with a Chinese or Russian military advisors on the ground in Mexico and Venezuela? Or even just a radar base that could track every American aircraft all the way to the Canadian border?... As an American who remembers Bomb Drills and Shelters, I am very alarmed that the Russians are frequently landing nuclear capable bombers in Cuba and, I suspect already are providing training, advisors and weaponry to Cuba and Venezuela. Every major nation spies using the best technology available. What on earth is Hugo doing with all that oil revenue?..... certainly not stocking grocery shelves. My biggest fear is that America is going to elect a President that does not possess the wisdom, experience maturity and courage to replay the Cold War to a successful ending as did Ronald Reagan.
This war is within the territory of Georgia - just as Russia continues to claim its genocide of Chechnyans was within the borders of Russia. Its not possible for Georgia to initiate aggression within its own borders. Your apologism for the resurgent Russian fascists is reprehensible. Georgia is a US ally, and Americans should consider this an attack on us. You should be ashamed of your propaganda on behalf of Putin's dictatorship.
The generally balanced article is marred by the extemporaneous comment that "many Russian officials near the top personally profit from huge kickbacks for such deals, and to them, it's "just business", nothing personal". Do you know this for a fact (if so, could you cite some names and positions or sources) or do you just assume this (as in, "it's general knowledge...")? This kind of loose opining only reinforces stereotypes about Russia.
As for a thoughtful statement of the Russian position, you should consider posting here Sergei Lavrov's interview of Aug 9 on Russia Today. It might help enlighten some of the other commentators, but then perhaps nothing will.
The generally balanced article is marred by the extemporaneous comment that "many Russian officials near the top personally profit from huge kickbacks for such deals, and to them, it's "just business", nothing personal". Do you know this for a fact (if so, could you cite some names and positions or sources) or do you just assume this (as in, "it's general knowledge...")? This kind of loose opining only reinforces stereotypes about Russia.
As for a thoughtful statement of the Russian position, you should consider posting here Sergei Lavrov's interview of Aug 9 on Russia Today. It might help enlighten some of the other commentators, but then perhaps nothing will.
MAN RUSSIA SHOULD'VE DESTROY USA IN THE CUBA MISSEL CRISE SO WE COULD'VE BE IN KOOL NOW BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THAT USA ALWAYS COUNTS ALL WHAT RUSSIA MAKES IS WRONG BUT CANT THEY SEE THAT EVERYTHING WHAT USA MAKES IS THE WORST THINGS THAT CAN BE MADE THEY MADE 9/11 SO THEY CAN HAVE RISON TO GO GET OIL FOM IRAQ I SWA ON TV THAT PEOPLE FROM WHITE HOUSE NEW ABOUT 9/11 AND SOM OF THEM WERE ARRESTED BUT ALSO RUSSIA IS GOING TO BILD NEW MILITARY BASES IN CUBA IF USA DEPLOYS NEW MISSILES IN POLAND BUT ALSO POLAND PEOPLE DONT WANT USA IN THE COUNTR ALSO YOU CAN SEE THAT NATO DOSENT SUPORT USA NO LONGER IN THE IRAQ AND OTHER PORTS BECAUSE THY CAN SEE THAT USA IS ALWAYS WRONG ALSO WESTERN EUROP DEPENDS OVER 40% OR RUSSIAN OIL AND GAS AND SOME ASIAN COUNTRIES TO AND THIS MAKE RUSSIA AS RILLY STRONG SUPER POWEWR ALSO RUSSI HASE THE FASTES GROWING ECONOMY WHILE USA IS CORRUPTED AND BANKRUPTED ALSO UKRAIN AND GEORGIA WANTED TO JOIN NATO BUT GERMANY AND FRANCE AND RUSSIA AND OTHER COUNTRIES WERE AGENST THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT NATO COUNTRY EVEN DONT SUPORT USA IN THAT CASE THEY SUPPORTED RUSSIA SO THEY WOUNT JOIN NATO BECAUSE IF THEY WOULD'VE THAT WOULD DESTROY RUSSIAN RELATIONS WITH WESTERN EUROPE WHILE THEY NEED RUSSIAN ENERGY AND OIL.
The U.S. for years has claimed our determination to fight terrorism, and yet we assumed open military action against the Serbs when they sought to expel Muslims enroaching on Serb territory in the 1990s. With the expansion of NATO--particularly the American attempt to exercise influence within Georgia--one can easily understand Russia's concern. If indeed America and the CIA are genuinely working in pursuit of peace and seeking to subdue Muslim-inspired terrorism, why are we meddling in Russia's business in Georgia, and similarly attempting to thwart Russia's effort to keep peace in, say, Chechnya?
We say that we're fighting terrorism, and yet we're not even on the same page with Russia and China with this issue. I understand that the three superpowers have had historic disagreements through the decades, but with the international spread of Islamic-based terrorism, it seems wholly ludicrous for the three to refuse to find common ground now.
I'll be supporting John McCain in the American election, though I'm of the opinion that he's likely rather uninformed on events currently transpiring along the Russian-Georgian border.
Were Moscow to successfully enlist Mexico or Canada as an ally, and establish a troop presence in either country, I'm sure we (the U.S.) would be ready to send troops or take significant military and economic countermeasures.
Anyone wishing for a resumption of the Cold War is either a complete fool or too young to remember the period 1945-90.
I hope idiots like previous comment from Don Meaker actually open their eyes and consider the entire truth, not just what is reported by the useless Washington Post or CNN.
1. Georgian borders were set by Joseph Stalin, which amongst being a ruthless dictator was a Georgian national and decided to hand South Ossetia and Abkhazia to Georgia for fun. Even though the territories were Russian for centuries and remain russian inhabited ever since. This is the equivalent of California being changed to Mexico.
2. This is NOT aggression from Russia. Georgian forces attacked first! And they attacked civilians! Actually look up some facts!
3. So your suggesting US gets involved in not only provoking war but justifying murder of civilians of South Ossetia just because they wanted freedom?
4. Georgian forces bomb South Ossetia civilians, and yet your suggesting the US steps in to help them along?
I suggest to any people like Don Meaker to actually stop throwing stupid and uneducated accusations and maybe look up some facts!
Who knows maybe your IQ might go above double digits!
All this shows is that the Russian government really are useless at Public Relations!
If America can invade Iraq and Afghanistan under lies, illegally imprison, torture and kidnap people worldwide through CIA prisons, fund terrorism (yes everyone forgets that decades ago it was US that put Saddam Hussein in power and channelled billions into funding Taliban in Afghanistan), ignore international agreements like Geneva conventions and be the ONLY country in history to actually use nuclear weapons to kill millions of people… and then be hailed a hero.
While Russian forces step in to protect defenceless civilians of South Ossetia after they are shelled by Georgian forces and be named aggressors?
Something is seriously screwed up with the media!
It is hats off to the US government for after the mistakes of allowing unprecedented media access in Vietnam and Korean wars they finally learnt how to control the media!
Sorry Ganske, but you're all wet here.
"From Russia's perspective, how does it look to have NATO not only expanded into the Ukrainian heartland, but also to its southern border in Georgia? Would the U.S. be comfortable with a Chinese or Russian military advisors on the ground in Mexico and Venezuela?"
Leaving aside from the fact that NATO has no resemblance to any of the nations you apple to orange'd, I would have to ask what has you so hostile towards NATO?
Don's first two paragraphs are absolutely correct. Your refusal to acknowledge these facts shows a disgusting bias.
His second two paragraphs I would call overly aggressive. Personally, I would simply have a single B2 collapse the border tunnel north of Zemo Roka.
When the mechanized Russian Army Runs out of Fuel, we'll see how well they enjoy their invasion of sovereign territory.
Russia does not recognize S. Ossetia as a country. So Russia is invading a sovereign country (Georgia). It would be like if Mexico had a civil war and the U.S. unilaterally attacked the side it allies itself with. "peace keepers" don't apartment blocks.
Let me begin with a couple of caveats. I am a patriotic US citizen, and I think Russia's invasion of Georgia is wrong.
That said, it is very clear that the US is reaping in Georgia what it sowed in Kosovo. Let us review what happened in that conflict. The US attacked a sovereign state, and one that happened to be an ally of Russia, for actions that took place entirely within its own borders, and could in no way abe construed as aggression against another state. It devastated the infrastructure of Serbia, seized a piece of its territory, and then elevated Kosovo to the status of an independent puppet state. The European powers now shedding big crocodile tears about Russian "immorality" in Georgia went along every step of the way. One wonders, what principle of international law are they attempting to vindicate, that applies to them as well as to Russia. How can one possibly see their past actions combined with their current verbal attacks on Russia as anything but the grossest hypocrisy?
Again, what principle are the US and its allies applying here. By what twisted logic can they defend their cowardly attack on Serbia and condemn Russia at the same time? Are we to elevate the claim that the US is more virtuous and possessed of a more sublime morality than the rest of the countries of the world to an accepted principle of international law? Are we to use this "principle" of superior virtue to vindicate any US aggression, while we condemn similar aggression by others? It sounds like a perfect recipe for World War III to me.
Based on everything the US has said and done since at least the time of its war of aggression against Serbia, it was and is Russia's perfect right to attack Georgia and detach South Ossetia, Abkhazia, and any other ethnic minorities it chooses, and elevate them to the status of independent states. The US government has absolutely no logical basis for claiming otherwise.
If I had any say about the matter in Russia, I would meet every self-righteous condemnation from the US standing in front of a collage of images of dead Serbian civilians, bombed out Serbian infrastructure, and collapsed Serbian bridges, and demand to know before any further discussion of the matter, by what right or principle the US can conceivably justify its actions against Serbia and, at the same time, condemn Russia for her actions in Georgia.
For years, Russia has been pointing out, with inescapable logic, that the US attack and violation of the territorial integrity of Serbia justifies any ethnic or other minority anywhere in unilaterally deciding that they want to seize a chunk of territory and set up their own state, regardless of the wishes of the other citizens of the country to which they happen to belong. Unfortunately, their cries have fallen on the deaf ears of those in charge of a self-defeating and bankrupt US foreign policy. Why, one might ask, should Hispanics in the US not have the right to seize a large portion of our southwest, declare it independent, and demand that the US get out? Which of the "principles" we used to attack Serbia would they be violating? Would they, also, not be perfectly within their rights?
Allow me to suggest a more reasonable principle. In a world full of nuclear weapons, no war of aggression should be tolerated, period, for any reason. Let the US apply this principle to its own actions before striking pious poses and throwing temper tantrums of virtuous indignation directed at Russia for actions in Georgia that differ in no substantial way whatsoever from US actions in Kosovo.
I have to wonder what the limits are to Ganske's unconditional Russian love? While we are playing with perspectives, maybe we should examine just how Russia's aggression looks to the Baltics, Poland and Ukraine. And as far as the US is concerned, when a large, commodities-enriched, powerful, militaristic and intensely nationalistic country invades a stretegic former colony, I think that we are right to be gravely concerned.
Western intelligence has been supporting Chechen terrorism since 92 so they can use that as a base to invade Dagestan bring that under US hegemony and control the Caspian oil Basin.
Chechnya has committed ethnic cleansing, had state protection for major organised crime gangs in Russia, harbouring foreign terrorists and sent militants to fight and train in Bosnia to massacre hundreds of unarmed civilians all before the first war.
Just like its sister US created state Kosovo it is a fascist islamo-mafia state.
Georgia launched an unprovoked attack under the guise of a peace settlement agreement hours later killing Russian soldiers and bombing civilian targets.
Russia had assured Ossetias protection encase Georgia lunched an aggressive unprovoked attack which it did.
Israeli military advisors and foreign mercenaries were involved in the assault so it was obviously pre-planned.
I think we've all been here before although the geography is different. Wasn't Hitler's excuse for aggression against Czechoslavakia "Protecting german born people?" This is the same tired excuse for aggression that Russia offers up, protecting Russian citizens. Putin and his puppet Medyedev risk much.
I think we've all been here before although the geography is different. Wasn't Hitler's excuse for aggression against Czechoslavakia "Protecting german born people?" This is the same tired excuse for aggression that Russia offers up, protecting Russian citizens. Putin and his puppet Medyedev risk much.
Actually, it is not a skirmish. It is a full-blown aggression against Russia by the United States. It is also a war crime. Yet another one in the vast catalog of American and American-sponsored war crimes. This time Russia was the victim and I have an eerie feeling that the US might still find its match.
When amassed artillery and multiple rocket launchers pound a sleeping peaceful city for hours then that's no skirmish. According to the latest news over 2000 civilians were killed that night (in fact no one knows how many are buried under the rubble). The fact that enemy's propaganda is now hysterical about Russia attacking a peaceful and democratic Georgia the truth is different and the fact remains that Georgia committed a heinous crime with help and probably under direction of the United States (Liberal media in Russia now tries hard to portray Sakashvili as irresponsible maniac, a miniature Hitler, the truth is that Sakashvili cannot go to the toilet without US permission and that Georgia alone is so poor it could not have afforded BB guns and Chinese petards.The US armed it to the teeth, trained its force of thugs up to NATO "standards" and orchestrated this whole atrocity.
It is true that Sakashvili threatened to withdraw 1000 or 2000 of his thugs from Iraq and Afghanistan but the problem he faces is that the statelet of Georgia does not have transport aircraft to move either the thugs or American equipment from Iraq to the real war theater. Also, they are not Western forces (whatever that means)- they are American trained thugs. It is Manstein I think who said he never encountered soldiers more cowardly and ignoble than Americans. It is a force, if I can call it that, which is only of use in overwhelming numbers with overwhelming air and fire superiority and is of no utility whatsoever under any other circumstances. We have reports from credible sources here, like independent generally anti-government journalists, of American-trained Georgian special forces throwing grenades into basements filled with children. Most important thing about Abu Ghraib crime was not that it was instigated with the acquiescence of the very top of US ruling junta, but because in its abject lowness and human depravity it was typically American crime, nothing like that could have happened in a British or French or say Argentinian run detention facility. This war was also typically American in planning and execution (meaning execution of civilians) and leveling of a city "to break"
moral. Anyway, back to 1000 or 2000 or whatever is the number of Sakashvili's thugs. He needs aircraft to bring them and equipment to Georgia. He just asked his masters, Americans, to provide the aircraft.
Now if the US supplies the aircraft it will automatically become a party to the conflict (everybody understands that the US is a party to the conflict albeit one that is acting through proxy).
"McCain, an outspoken critic of Moscow, said it was clear the situation in Georgia was dire. "Tensions and hostilities between Georgians and Ossetians are in no way justification for Russian troops crossing an internationally recognized border," he said in a statement."
My comment:
Kosovo anyone?
Georgia tried to clear South Ossetian Republic from South Ossetian people…Genocide in 21 century!
Georgia (at this time - M Saakashvili) attacks his nearest Independent Repablic in third time in the world history. At this time 8 hours before opening of Olympic games. And in the third time in the history Russia tries to save South Ossetian people from total annihilation. But the most important in this situation is how this “event†shown in the most of Europian, American and Chinese mass media. The first report in this mass media wasn’t Georgia attacks South Ossetia and destroyed 8 villages with tanks and heavy weapon, the first report was “Russia attacks Georgiaâ€. This is bull shit. I never can’t even imagine that as authority sources as BBC and CNN will be lie so open and wide.
Here it is the real sequence of events:
The day before opening fire, M.Saakashvili was in the South Ossetia and written the “non-aggression pactâ€.
Several hours after that (00.00 of 8th august), Georgian troops with heavy weapon, artillery and aircrafts begin the attack on 8 South Ossetian villages and Tshinvali the capitol of this Independent Republic. (I repeat Independent because it’s not a Georgian province or as say in western mass media “Separatist Republicâ€. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are Independent Republics, that Georgia always (during last 200 years) wanted to join to it’s territory with force.)
In several hours this 8 villages was completely destroyed and almost all civilians was killed there. Just few civilians escaped scatheless. They told that some civilian houses was destroyed with Georgian tanks tracks with live people inside it’s basements.
After that, Georgian troops begins heavy artillery bombardment of the sleeping city Tshinvalli. They used heavy artillery weapon and Rocket systems for the attack on this city without any notice. Most of the civilians died in their own beds. It is this picturies were shown by CNN and BBC next day with comments that Russia attacks Georgia. (direct lie)
After heavy artillery preparation Georgian troops and heavy armors entered the almost destroyed Tshinvali where they begin to kill all alive civilians. (You can see this picture on CNN and BBS it was shown by mistake then Georgian trooper shoot in the unarmed civilian but killed dog and after that Georgian light MCV tried to finish him and shooting in the house).
After Georgian troops entered the city one of their subdivision were direct to the Russian Peacekeepers Headquarter in Tshinvali.
Georgian troops and tanks begin direct fire to the Russian peacekeepers. All Russian MCV were destroyed 10 Peacekeepers were killed. Our troops begins to defend their base and ask for help.
About 150 more Russian Peacekeepers were still alive and fighting to defend their lives.
All the day Georgian Aircrafts and artillery were systematic destroying the city and civilians.
About 03:00 GMT (7:00 Moscow time) Russia asked for immediate meeting of United Nations Security Council, which has been ended without any result (As said one of the member “it’s too late, they can’t do anything because just wanted to sleepâ€) while South Ossetian people were dieing in the basements of their own homes.
And only after that Russian Army had to enter Republic of South Ossetia (Not Georgia).
And only this were shown in Europian and American mass media.
Georgian aircrafts continue attacks on city, villages and Russian Airforce had to destroy several flight strips in Georgia to prevent this flights.
Ask yourself what Georgian troops do in the civilian city Tshinvali?
Ask yourself then M.Saakashvili said the truth during last 2 years? All his politics is pure lie.
Ask yourself why he didn’t want to sign any legal peace convention with South Ossetia?
Ask yourself why all this facts were shown inverse for you?
Ask yourself why Europian and American mass media didn’t show you the real begin of this genocide?
Ask yourself Why Europian flag is behind M.Saakashvili?
Ask yourself Why he interrupted broadcast of Russian channels in his republic, is this Democracy?
Ask yourself Why Georgian television shows South Ossetian civilians killed by his troops and say that it is killed Georgian civilians?
Now Imagine yourself that Russian forces in this region is 10 times more then whole Georgian army and if Russian forces really wanted to enter the Georgia it will be destroyed in 4-5 hours. And if there are a little brain in your head you will understand that we just triing to save peace in this region we triing to save small South Ossetian people from total annihilation. 2000 South Ossetian are already dead!! Can u understand this ? Dead! Killed in their own homes while sleeping just right before the beginning of the Olympic games. Georgian troops and artillery contine to attack at this time. They shooting the road with red cross cars. All the claims of Georgia about peace is bullshit. They just triing to kill as many Ossetians as they can.
I can say only one thing. Almost all that shown on BBC and CNN is “inverse trueâ€. I don’t know why this happens, but this fact excite me very much. There are no more Soviet Union with it’s communist party. There is Russia now. And if you look at the map you will understand that we have enough territory. The only aggressive country in the world is unfortunately USA now. USA instructors have been training Georgian troops last 2 year. They trained them well to kill civilians. Good job... We are democracy country now...and we elect our president and government not to begin a war!
For whole Russian history (Not USSR) Russia NEVER declair war first. We were always defend our territory. From the several turkey wars then they tried to capture our south prvinces 300 years ago, after that from Napoleon army then we save whole Europe from his aggression, after that from Japanese army which tried to capture our Eastern region, then from Hitler I hope you know who is Hitler… think about this. And think deep hard about what news you see… truth or lie.
But remember one thing Russia never wanted and never will want a war .
It was an obvious provocation by Georgia agreeing on a peace settlement the using that as cover to launch a full scale attacks on S Ossetia blitzing it killing hundreds of civilians and Russian peacekeepers.
It was obviously a well orchestrated manoeuvre by the US, Georgia and Israel to get a Russian response.
Russia has had military forces in Southern Ossetia continuously since the year 1801. For comparison, Ohio became a US state in the year 1803.
Throughout Russia’s long presence in Southern Ossetia, Russia has helped protect Ossetian cultural autonomy from the Georgians. During the Soviet period, that area was defined as the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast, an arrangement that enabled that ethnic group to administer its own schools, mass media and cultural institutions in the Ossetian language. Every inhabitant of that authonomous oblast had the legal right to conduct all his personal legal affairs in that language.
Because of that historical background, the Ossetians trust and welcome the Russians to protect their endangered language and culture from the Georgians. Furthermore, the Russians themselves do no think of themselves as invading or occupying this area or doing anything that deserves any criticism from Europe, the USA or anyone else.
Arguing that Russia’s military intervention to protect South Ossetia is just a perlude to Russia ruling Europe in a few years is absurd.
All this hysterical nonsense ought to give us a better understanding about the Russian’s hysterical reaction to USA’s intervention in the former Yugoslavia to protect the Bosnians and Albanians from the Serbs. In that situation, the Russians hollered sanctimoniously that our humanitarian intervention to save the evil Moslems from the saintly Serbs was a prelude to the USA trying to take over the entire world. Now we are seeing a similar stupidity in reverse.
The more I read on this conflict, the more confused I get.
It just shows you what a bunch of ignorant peons run the Russian Federation. After this little tantrum what do you think the free nations of the former eastern block will be doing? They will be purchasing high grade weaponry from western powers and building their military power. And next time the Russians try something like this they will pay for it in blood. Putin really does have a small man complex. And the little moron is still running things behind the scenes.
I believe Mr Charles Ganske has it absolutely right. With all the responses and approvals, he must have. I was very disappointed when I turned on my news station, the only thing they were talking about was John Edwards sex scandal. I had to go on the web in order to find out there was a war going on. And from what all I have seen, Georgia is mostly at fault for this conflict. After Condoleezza Rice visited Saakashvili a few weeks ago,and she assured her support for Georgia's territorial integrity, Saakashvili must have interpreted that as a green light for military action in the Separatist provinces. He was sadly mistaken. the US and the Eu were totally unprepared for this to happen. One US official had said, in his criticism of Russia, that "Georgia is partly at fault for the conflict". Though he urged for "The Russians to stop the aggression" he also said the US had been having "very blunt discussions with Saakashvili". He said they were telling him "there is no way Georgia can win a war with Russia". Because the US and NATO are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan, and would not have the will to start World War III over Georgia, will not militarily intervene to save Georgia. And the West has very little leverage over the Russians politically and economically. Europe is dependent on Russia's energy, and the US needs Russia's cooperation in dealing with Iran. With that in mind, Georgia must abandon its idea of NATO coming to the rescue. That is not happening. Though Russia should not expand the conflict beyond Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Invading the whole of Georgia is not the answer. I do believe Saakashvili should be made an example of, but overthrowing him and occupying the whole of Georgia will cause international condemnation from the world. Russia does not need the bad press. But driving Georgia from its two separatist provinces will indeed teach it and other states a very important lesson; Don't upset Russia in its own backyard.
HOW DO YOU STEP UP A TRIAL FOR WAR CRIMES? Mikheil Saakashvili for trial?
That is all i want to know!
Because mass murdering 2000 defenceless civilians of South Ossetia would be one for sure.
Ohh i forgot, Georgia is an ally of the USA.
Ok, never mind, you may continue your "War of Terror" (to quote Borat)
Georgia was wrong on this one and with it's actions of it's president, can basically kiss off those territories forever.
If the US was in the position that Russia was in, we would have done the same thing as Russia and probably more so dropped in and captured the president at the same time. It's hypocritical for the US to complain about "disappropriate use of force".
I do feel sorry for the Georgian people though. I can see why they would think that the US and West were with them and would support them. This will only hurt the US worse in the future, Georgians will no longer trust the US and it will probably spill over to Ukraine as well. The US says a lot but doesn't always back it up.
People of the world. You deceive! World mass media conduct propagation of a false information. Russia DID NOT ATTACK Georgia! 07.08.2008 at 22:00 Georgia has attacked South Ossetia. At 3:30 08.08.2008 tanks of the Georgian armies have entered into city Tskhinvali. Artillery bombardment all the day long proceeded, fights with use of tanks and heavy combat material, both against ossetic armies, and against peace inhabitants were conducted. 1400 civil people already were lost.
On the plus side (if there be one...)this conflict has caused Georgia to recall all of its 2000 troops it had comitted to Iraq back home to deal with the crisis there, I mean you really have to be such a suck-up to send such a sizable force to some other countrie's bushes or sand dunes to remove splinters while your own has a giant steak through its own heart! and on top of it all they take on russian peacekeepers expecting them to act like traditional UN peacekeepers, that is., turning the other cheek (all 4 0f them!!) well they painfully found out that the russians are no humpty dumpty!! and what would you expect? what with NATO gobbling up every willing starved out breakaway pea sized feifdoms and fomenting conflict within the 'estan' regions of southern Russia, Russia had no choice but to declare "enough is enough!!" Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin had no other options left, I trully believe they made a hard but wise decision.
Russia should finish Saddam-shvili off. Americans and Israeli went way too far this time around. Training and arming 35,000 killers who squashed 2,000 innocent women and children -- I do not know who on this board has the balls to pontificate about the "high moral ground" etc. This has been building up for some time. I feel sorry for the Georgian people. But their puppet-shvilli sucked American "cheney" too long -- he got himself in the middle of GEOpolitics. Enough that Yankees are now setting up missiles and radars on the Western border, next step -- they will be setting military bases on the Southern... Remember the Cuban Crisis?! Well, the clean-up that the Russians are taking care of as we speak is the the sort of "Russian Bay of Pigs" (or maybe I should reminisce about Panama, or Grenada?!).
Russians decided 'Nough is 'nough... Good morning, America, welcome to the New World!
Russia was on wrong this time because they were the "supposed" peacekeepers keeping peace between "wannabe Russians" in the breakaway areas. Yet Russia "stirred the pot" by issuing passports to Georgian people in the breakaway areas, and labelled them Russian, only to switch sides from peacekeeper to rescuer and so-called "rescue them" from the Georgians when the Georgians attempted to install law and order within their own borders.
So if the Russian intent is peaceful then why did they supply arms to Abkhazian separatists in the early 90s and then subsequently offer to broker a peace.... if Georgia agreed to CIS membership and 3 bases in their country? C'mon, history repeats itself.
This is a typical Russian move. The Georgians also learned a valuable lesson: the West won't have bloodshed unless Russia commences a full takeover of Georgia. I think Putin knows that and is not so foolish.
The final interesting sidenote is just how involved Putin is. For a "former" leader, he sure is calling the shot.s
I sure hope the Russians agree to an international peacekeeping force in South Ossetia. It is the ONLY fair route. INsisting that they maintain the peace is like asking Iran to safeguard Iraqi peace, it is a blantly retarded concept.
As a precursor--I have no ties to any of the involves parties or countries, but I did study the region intensly in college. It truely is the 21st century energy corridor.
So if the Russian intent is peaceful then why did they supply arms to Abkhazian separatists in the early 90s and then subsequently offer to broker a peace.... if Georgia agreed to CIS membership and 3 bases in their country? C'mon, history repeats itself.
This is a typical Russian move. The Georgians also learned a valuable lesson: the West won't have bloodshed unless Russia commences a full takeover of Georgia. I think Putin knows that and is not so foolish.
The final interesting sidenote is just how involved Putin is. For a "former" leader, he sure is calling the shot.s
I sure hope the Russians agree to an international peacekeeping force in South Ossetia. It is the ONLY fair route. INsisting that they maintain the peace is like asking Iran to safeguard Iraqi peace, it is a blantly retarded concept.
As a precursor--I have no ties to any of the involves parties or countries, but I did study the region intensly in college. It truely is the 21st century energy corridor.
It is a great disappointment to see US government to apply double standards and manipulate president of Georgia to make suicidal move, end his political carrier and potentially join Saddam in whatever hell hole he is in now. Never and I repeat never Russia will forgive Saakashville for acts of terror that ether he himself plan out or some of his trigger happy generals did. All the BS that CNN want the whole world to swallow is not going to work. People today have multiple sources of information; the reality is not what is being reported to American public. Russia did not invade Georgia, the head line need to be like this: “After 14 Russian peacekeepers killed buy surprised attack from Georgia controlled territory and 14 hours of none stop artillery and GRAD fire on civilian targets, Russia was forced to respond by sending overwhelming military force to defend small regain of South Ossetia and pushed the Georgian forces away from disputed territory†Dos any one knows what GRAD means, do you know what is used for, Google BM-21 GRAD. This 40 racket launcher is build to devastate and level enemy territory. This “boy toy†is not something you use to police rebellion republic, that is controlled by Russian peacekeepers’ for the last 16 yr. US need to stop on taking sides in other nations conflicts. What possible interest US can have with Georgia except buy jerking Russians on their border. I wonder if we, and yes I mean US citizens, how we will react if Russians start to mess around our border like Canada or Mexico. US government need to focus on our needs 1st, that is why they are in the office, we need to worry about our problems first. Bush call Putin “friend†and helps Georgia to increase there military budget 30 times. That is why our relationship with Russia means nothing, when today we say that the Russia/USA relationship may have long term consequences, what relationship?
It is a good thing i am not president, because I would Order a no fly zone over Georgia, show American Might, as i moved our navy to the black sea, and order the United States Air force to shoot down any Russian military aircraft.
They want a fight with democracy, and they threw the first punch.
Hello, my name is Kate, i am in school, taking honors classes, and our main focus is perspective, the way other people veiw things. I was reading an article on the 'Nacirema' or as I figured out later, the Americans.It was funny to see how other people veiw us(with referance from the article) and how we veiw you and how you veiw yourselves(with referance from this blog).
I am not in support of the violence myself. I truly feel though that sovereignty is based on the will of the people. An agreement needs to come about forcing Georgia to allow the peoples of Abkhazia and South Ossetia to vote on the issue of independence. If they vote in favor of it then they should be recognized as independent. All troops (Russian, Georgian, etc.) need to be pulled back and if the violence continues between ossetians/abkhazians and georgians, UN or NATO peace keepers should be sent in until an official vote can take place.
To press the Kosovo analogy, why has Russia indisputably sent 40 tanks into Gori! Why are Russian soldiers looting, murdering and burning houses? Did NATO invade Serbia as well as Kosovo? This is not peacekeeping, this is brutal violation of its truce, and plain lying.
You're a propagandist Mr Ganske.