COUNTERPOINT: If you are not American, you probably don't know how difficult it is to get a visa just to visit Russia, and you don't know that Russia has no status like "permanent resident" that it offers to Americans as America offers to Russians, so no American can get a Russian "green card."

You don't know that an American can only get a visa to live in Russia for a fixed period of time, after which the American MUST leave the country and petition for reentry, a humiliating and expensive process, to say nothing of being risky to personal security.

You don't know that when an American visits a city like Seattle in Russia, say Smolensk or Kursk, they will be followed and monitored closely by the local FSB, being viewed as a potential spy.

And you certainly have no idea about Americans coming to Russia as tourists and then staying illegally, gobbling up Russian social benefits, because it never happens. Russians charge foreigners much higher prices for cultural and social services than foreigners, while in America everybody pays the same. Because of Russia's harsh dictatorial policies and crude underdevelopment, foreigners from developed countries simply have no desire to live in Russia.

Very nicely written. This basically summarizes all the hardships every single non-american has to undergo in order to gain LEGAL entry into USA. And we are totally happy with all that because we know and understand that each country has to protect its borders and at the same time allow entry to qualified people. I am on the same lines with you Yuri Mamchur with regards to the on-going protest by the illegal immigrants. In fact, looking at the way some politicians are supporting it is really worrying me because it sends a message to everyone that USA supports illegal immigration (which I hope it doesn't ! ... I mean, there should atleast be some difference between the legal immigrants/non-immigrants and the illegal immigrants !).

Dear Kim,

My good friend Nick Slepko is working and living in Kiev, Ukraine, and he has worked and lived in Russia before. He has never met a single FSB agent, while traveling many provinces of Russia and former Soviet Union (though he does work for American non-profits and government agencies). He has enjoyed his time in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus greatly. While museums are really more expensive for foreigners, it is so for the reason, that if you charge a Russian $30 for museum entry - Russians will lose their own cultural identity - no one will be able to afford it. I'd say $30 admission ticket to a museum isn't bad for an American; Moscow subway or bus any distance costs 50 cents, train Moscow - Kiev (comparable to Washington - Boston) is $30. Travel is cheap easy. Customs take much less than those of Canada or US. Dear Kim, it sounds like you haven't been in Russia since grandpa Stalin passed away. Please visit and enjoy! And thank you for reading the Russia Blog. We love comments, even if they are critical.

Dear Yuri,

If you'll reread my post a bit more carefully, you'll see that I didn't say Americans MEET FSB/KGB, I said they are monitored by them. The whole point of monitoring someone is NOT to let them "meet" you. But the KGB does "meet" and interview persons whom the American contacts, and it does give instructions to those who host the American. If a "meeting" is required, it comes in the form guise of OVIR.

Russia has one of the lowest rates of tourism per capita in the industrialized world. If you watch the movie "Reds" you will see the American Jack Reed having a grand old time in Russia, for a while anyway, and there are always exceptions to every rule, but that only proves the rule is valid. Most people who visit Russia from the developed world are very disappointed, and the vast majority never visit at all. You carelessly disregard basic statistics and attempt to use anecdotal evidence in the manner of the Soviet propagadist.

I find your comment about museum prices extremely bizarre. I never suggested that Russians pay more, I only stated that Americans should pay the same as Russians. In fact, Russian law requires this, but many cultural institutions go on violating the law with typical Russian recklessness. The amount of additional money earned by Russia by gouging American tourists in museums is minute.

Dear Yuri, it seems you have never seen your country through the eyes of a foreigner, which is very typical for Russians. The fact that an American can grab a cheap ride on a subway is very small consolation for rude treatment in virtually every area of the service industry, pollution, crime, pathetically low quality medical services, and corruption.

Dear Yuri, Have you ever been accosted by a policeman in American who demanded your documents and then a bribe when they weren't "in order"? This happened to my friend and I the last time we were in Moscow, which was four months ago.

And, may I ask, why doesn't Russia blog report on the spate of murders of foreign university students in Russia? I highlight it on my blog at
http://russophobe.blogspot.com/.

I recently read an article in Investors Business Daily about the Immigration issue. It seems so wrong to make it insurmountably difficult for a well educated, bright, skilled, motivated foreigner to enter the US to work legally. We need these people. Our own educational system fails our children and business in preparing for future employment. And the parents and children themselves have also failed; rather than hard work and perserverence to excellence, they expect entitlement and grade inflation. It is no surprise that the H1B visas (limited to 65,000) are snatched up immediately by corporate leaders and innovators such as Intel (founded by an immigrant) and Microsoft. They cannot find well qualified employee prospects here in the US. Furthermore, our medical system is being more and more dependent on foreign trained physicians and nurses. Not enough Americans are pursuing those careers today.

I appreciate greatly the process Yuri went through to obtain his visas. And I am grateful to have people like him in our country. We need more people of strong values, high caliber and hard work ethic.

However, I do not support illegal immigration. It only exploits people, and weakens the fabric of our society. We need a functioning, sane immigration policy. America was built on immigrants seeking a new opportunity, and willing to work hard for it. That should continue today, with the best and brightest having the first opportunities to enter.

Dear Kim, we have had several posts about the murders of foreign students in the last few months. One of them was quoted by several major Eastern Europe/Russian blogs a few months ago.

See the crime category of our blog:
http://www.russiablog.org/crime/

As per tourism - Russia is what it is. It has been that way for 1,000 years. Many Russians by the way prefer the corrupt cops, rather than crazy loitering and drug dealing in downtown Seattle at 2 pm. No one is perfect and everyone is different.

I still strongly disagree on the FSB thing. I have tons of friends flying back and forth, and we do have family friends working for FSB. Trust me - they couldn't care less.

I had a great time in Russia as did my friends who went with me.

Kim seems to have a not so nice axe to grind.

Yuri, the St. Petersburg Times is runing a front-page story on a murdered black student right now. How about covering that?

I'm not saying Russia has to change, all I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to contend that Russia is popular with foreign tourists. Russians are rabid xenophobes, hate foreign visitors and are no doubt very happy being left alone.

If you think the FSB doesn't care about foreigners traveling around in Russia and just ignores them, you are absurdly out of touch with reality and I question whether this blog is worth reading. The Moscow Times is runing a story right now about two Britons who've been arrested, one for trying to walk across Russia and one for trying to inspect Chechnya with a UN mandate. It's naive views of the world like this that prevent Russia from establishing a credible image as a member of the international community by preventing any semblance of reform.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Kim, I think so far I have more supporters of my views than yours.

http://russophobe.blogspot.com/

Alexandra: So, let me get this straight. If you say "I had a great time in Russia as did my friends who went with me" that's perfectly fine, unquestionable,unbiased simple truth. But if anyone says the opposite, that can only be explained by having a "not so nice axe to grind," right?

Yes, you are quite right of course. The fact that Vladimir Putin is a proud KGB spy with a secret resume is meaningless. The fact that Russian police are more dangerous than Russian criminals, that black students are being murdered left and right, that the AVERAGE wage is $300 per month (which means at least half the population is BELOW that) and that the population is declining and in 50 years will be half what it is today, the fact that there is rampant pollution, and AIDS crisis and a bloody war in Chechnya that makes Iraq look like a tea party, that is all irrelevant.

Because, after all, you and your pals had a great time in Russia.

Re: Kim Zigfeld's latest

I look forward to visiting Russia, (the land of my heritage) soon.

Bush Sr. headed the CIA. With the exception of Albania, just about every European country is declining in population. Russia ranks third among countries receiving immigrants. AIDS is a big problem in China and India as well. Blacks get murdered in the US for racially motivated reasons. Many American law enforcement officials leave something to be desired. Back in my undergrad days, I spent a summer installing smoke detectors at Rikers Island. I often wondered who was worse between some of the interned versus the guards. Ever hear of Abner Louima?

I'm not saying all of this to dis the US, but to reveal the hypocritically flawed prejudices of Kim Zigfeld.

Between 2003-05 - 50,000 left Israel for Russia, whereas only 10,000 left Russia for the Jewish state.

Thank G-d the situation in Chechnya has stabilized. In retrospect, Russia should've militarily acted sooner and more decisively. Many lives would've been saved.

Albeit with difficulty, Russia is on the rise and will be great. This is great news for the world at large.

I'll refrain from saying what I think of the Russia hating bigots who wish otherwise.

Yuri, thanks for pointing out the problems getting visas to the US. Getting Russian scholars to the US for conferences is a big problem. It simply facilitates the increased isolation of Russian scholars from scholars of Russia. The only way to develop collaborative relationships is to go there and forge them. This is unfortunate because I think scholars and students would benefit greatly from more interaction with their Russian collegues.

But in terms of Russian visa regulations for Americans, I tend to view them as retalitory measures for the ones we institute against them.

I've never had a problem getting a visa to go to Russia, and frankly through registration with OVIR is a pain in the ass, with a bit of patience it gets done. For tourists, registration has gotten really easy as is getting a tourist visa. If you stay at a hotel registration is done in seconds.

As for Kim comments, I spent the last year in Russia and while yes there are serious problems, but I don't think nightmare visions are in order either. While I wasn't stopped on the street by the militsia (I am after all white), I was visited by the MVD at home to have my registration checked. Everything was in order so there was no harm, no foul. I assume they came by because a neighbor kept seeing a stranger everyday for a month. But who really knows it could have been a random check.

While I was in Riazan, they visited me in the reading room of the archive I was working in. It was scary for sure. They questioned me for 45 min, but then again I was not registered and I think they were just putting the scare in me. They fined me $50 and I went to OVIR to get registered the next day. It took all of 20 min. I never saw them again.

The problem with getting registered is the paperwork. You need a zaiavlenie from your landlord saying that you are staying in their apartment. But there is always talk of making this easier. There was even talk a few months ago of making registration by mail. I doubt this will happen though.

Was this FSB/MVD monitoring as Kim describes it? I highly doubt it. As the archivist in Riazan pointed out, I was working in the city admistration building everyday. Everyone knew who I was. So they decided to check to see if I was legal. Besides this, I never ever had a problem, though this is not to say that people don't have problems. The incidents of racial violence is very alarming.

However, I didn't find Russians anymore rude or kind as people here in Los Angeles.

Foreigners are extorted by the militsia all the time in Moscow. Non-whites get much more hassle than whites. And there are cases of police beatings etc. But to make reductionist statements about life in Russia like Kim does serves no purpose but to continually distort the place. After all, Russia is not America and we Americans should expect to to be. I guess this is Kim's intention, hence a blog called Russophobe.

Wow.
I am reading these comments with great interest. I guess I have come to look at Russia as a completely different world than America. The rules are different than USA, and they have been for a millenium. Moscow was founded on corruption. It is a system that has worked for a thousand years. Some things cannot change overnight ( a VERY long night!); especially when the price for continuing it is lower than the price for changing it.

I appreciate greatly the gifts Russia has given to the world, through music, art, religion, and excellence in many arenas. I am sad that the corruption has caused suffering to so many. And I would hope that it will change with a greater world involvement.

This reply is by an immigrant who has obtained american citizenship along the way.

This is a very insightful article, especially the parts about the difficulty and the expense involved with obtaining a visa.

However, you do a misservice by making an analogy between your situation and theirs. I assume that you have at least a masters degree, if not a doctorate. You just obtained a position with the Discovery Institute, so I figure that this is a valid assumption.

Surely, you can't expect your personal example to be representative of what these immigrants are facing. I assure you, a Mexican with a background comparable to yours will chose one of the legal venues avaiable for citizen ship. But if you are suggesting that your case is comparable to an unskilled or semi-skilled worker who is facing between poverty and an $8.00 an hour job to do things legally, and that the lesson that person ought to learn is to come up with $20,000 dollars, then you are mistaken about the relevance of your situation to the protesters you are writing about.

Nicely said ... that there is a piece of hardship to get in America .Still one can get in America and there is hope of getting a green card. think about other countries

Yuri,
I think you should send your article to the Seattle Times and The Tacoma News Tribune as an editorial letter. There are a few in the paper today. And yours speaks so well to the issues. David Zeek (publisher of TNT) has met you, and knows abut your father's visit last fall. Plus your relationship with the Russian Round Table at the World Trade center gives a lot of credibility to your name and message. It would also be good PR for your blog, music and Discovery Institute.

You can include a brief bio with the letter. And if you send it electronically, you can inclde links to your site, and your music.

Marketing.....marketing....marketing...

Yuri:

Hate to rub it in, but I am not a "legal immigrant"... not anymore anyway.

I am an American now (citizenship and all that, but more importantly culturally).

Then again, I've been here much longer than you have, and at a much younger age, too, for that matter.

See a previous Seattle Times column here.

Kripal: Yes, think about Russia. No "green card" status is available to any foreigner, who are generally reviled in Russia.

In fact, Russians have two completely different words for "Russian" -- one for a Slavic ("russkii" meaning "Russian by race") and one for "not Slavic" ("rossiskii" meaning "Russian by law"). Can you give an example of another country that does this?

Do you think illegal immigrants want to come here illegally? They would much rather be here legally than illegally. You prove the point that it is expensive and difficult to come here legally. For the many illegal immigrants who have no money (that's why they come to the U.S. after all), it is simply impossible to pay all that money and wait all that time while their families are barely making it back home. If the U.S. is so lenient about protecting its borders, can you blame illegal immigrants for coming over when wages here are 5 dollars per hour compared to 4 dollars per day or less in other countries?

Kim, a country's popularity doesn't necessarily make it "right". China is considered one of the most highly esteemed countries in the world right now, does that make its model of development superior to that of the U.S? More sustainable (especially given the Communist Party's massive eminent domain abuses which are creating rural unrest)? How about its standards of human rights?

Sometimes countries, like people, are feared/hated/envied because they're too big, too rich, or too powerful. In this respect, Russia and the U.S. have a lot in common. We are well aware that the expansion of the U.S. into the West was not immaculate, and neither was Russia's (though I believe overall the U.S. human rights record even in the post Soviet era is far superior). De Tocqueville said in the 1830s that America and Russia were two countries destined to dominate the world stage. While I wish I could share Averko's near term optimism, nations, cultures and civilizations routinely go through periods of decline followed by periods of revival. Russia is not so far gone that it is simply too late, otherwise this blog would be a total waste of time.

In reply to what has been recently said by Kim, I would be lying if I said that Russia is a police state with a very racist population that behaves stupidly.

Kripal, at another venue Mike Averko said that Russians and non-ethnic Russians make up Russia's population. This is a sign of a country respecting the different ethnic groups making up that country.

Sorry to inform the resident Russia hater, but living conditions are improving in Russia and (as repeated previously), just about every European country with the exception of Albania has a declining population (Albania is the poorest country in Europe).

As prevously noted, Russia ranks third among nations receiving immigrants.

China will not gobble up Russian territory. Is Mexico about to gobble up American territory? The Chinese military isn't poised to be so much more superior to Russia's. Moreover, China has other territories of interest.

Where is Russia "still singing Stalin's song." Russia has faced its past. It has rejected Communism and is pursuing the market economy with a zeal that Russians are known for when targetting a goal.

BTW That Yanukovych article is for the most part a joke. It effectively states that Ukraine's voters are stupid for voting for him.

The article did get one point right about the different oligrach clans having their own horses.

As for Yanuk's criminal past, if Kim liked Yanuk, then the Blue leader would be the bad boy who grew up into something noble.

Much of Ukraine's citizenry have problems speaking Ukrainian. That's because many of them grew up speaking Russian like their ancestors.

Sorry to inform the resident Russia hater, but living conditions are improving in Russia and (as repeated previously), just about every European country with the exception of Albania has a declining population (Albania is the poorest country in Europe).

As prevously noted, Russia ranks third among nations receiving immigrants.

China will not gobble up Russian territory. Is Mexico about to gobble up American territory? The Chinese military isn't poised to be so much more superior to Russia's. Moreover, China has other territories of interest.

Where is Russia "still singing Stalin's song." Russia has faced its past. It has rejected Communism and is pursuing the market economy with a zeal that Russians are known for when targetting a goal.

BTW That Yanukovych article is for the most part a joke. It effectively states that Ukraine's voters are stupid for voting for him.

The article did get one point right about the different oligrach clans having their own horses.

As for Yanuk's criminal past, if Kim liked Yanuk, then the Blue leader would be the bad boy who grew up into something noble.

Much of Ukraine's citizenry have problems speaking Ukrainian. That's because many of them grew up speaking Russian like their ancestors.

I just sent you a news article abut a Technology Programming competition in Texas. Pretty impressive performance by Russians; not only first place, but other awards. I think it reinforces your comments (and my agreement) about American education. And also my comment on the blog about immigration for the best and brightest.

Yuri: We're a nation of immigrants, so being foreign isn't the issue. As you said, we need to secure our borders. Can't afford another 9/11, and charity begins at home. If we can't look after ourselves, we aren't going to be doing much good in the world at large.

Due to my line of work, most of my coworkers have always been immigrants from the mideast, south asia and east asia. Not a single one supports amnesty for these people. Not that I don't feel sorry for the hard labor they do, or feel ashamed of our companies paying such low wages using people like that, but just giving a free pass, like we seem to do every 10 years, is not the answer, obviously if we keep having to do it. And it is not fair to everyone else. My family came here from Italy, they didn't ask for special treatment, nor did they get any.

I wrote an article in honor of all my friends who came here from somewhere else. It's at the top of my blog right now if you want to check it out, you might get a chuckle, or not.

The dense one among us here is apparently unaware that Moscow has a good sized ethnic Ukrainian population which comprises many newly arrived, inclusive of a good number from western Ukraine.

Russia is to be applauded for officially recognizing other ethnic groups in Russia besides Russians. Russia is roughly 20% non-Russian.

Refer to:

ON BEING RUSSIAN
http://www.russiablog.org/2005/12/on_being_russian.html#more

It's absurd to believe that China can easily take over Russia's fareast in the immediate or distant future.

It's extremely obtuse to continuously ignore the fact that Russia ranks third among countries receiving immigrants.

Recently, there have been a number of Western, non-Western and hybrid surveys in Ukraine, showing opposition to NATO expansion while being more supportive of the Common Economic Sphere as opposed to the so called "European Union," which in point of fact doesn't include Europe's largest nation.

The constantly claimed 70% Orange victory in the recent Rada election is sheer fantasy on the part of Kim.

Kim asks if there is another country like Russia that has a distinction like russkii and rossisskii. The problem is there are too many to count. You can pretty much count every country that is a nation state that is based on an ethnicity and is experiencing immigration (Israel, France and Germany for example) or nation states that have an overarching category as its civic identity like the United States or the former Soviet Union.

One could also point to the former Yugoslavia as another example and how the reconciliation of ethnic identity with civic identity can lead to disastrous results.

I won't even touch on how big this problem is in post-colonial states. Suffice to say the tension between ethnc and civic identity is a hallmark of modernity.

In terms of the United States, what is "Native-American," "American" and "African-American", "Hispanic-American", "Asian-American" etc but a variant similar to russkii and rossiskii? The difference between the two terms is that one is civic (rossiskii) and the other is ethnic/racial (russkii).

I recently wrote about this problem in Russia. I invite those interested in reading it.

But back to the US, the process of reconciling race with the civic identity of American has been one of, if not the motors of American social and constitutional history. The recent immigrant protests are yet another example.

The history of the nation state, as personified by Europe is based on homogeneous societies. Everyone in the German nation state is ethnically German, therefore ethnicity and civic identity are in line. But with increased immigration from Turkey and Africa this has thrown the German civic identity into crisis. Up until recently, I think, you could only become a citizen of Germany if you were of "German blood", whatever the hell that means. Essentially, the increase of heterogeneity in former homogeneous states in the West (and I think it is telling that this has become of problem since Third Worlders have migrated), has upset the category of what does German, French, Russian, and even American mean.

I immigrated to Canada, not U.S. Canada is supposed to have more relax rules than U.S. I have spend $80,000 in tuition fee, 5 years in hard study, 2 years in waiting of immigration process. Totally 7 years and close to $100,000 spent. That my price for permanent resident. Am I being stupid for playing by the rule ?

Great blog Sean.

Yuri,

Welcome to America, and thank you.

Yuri

Clearly you came to the USA to live. You had the means and desire to navigate through the hoops & red tape that was needed to achieve your goal. My hat is off to you.

It wasn't too long ago that our nations were sworn enemies. Proceedure and oversight is driven by such considerations. There are always discretionary decisions made by bureaucrats.

I don't know if Russia relies on labor from outside their borders. If they do I'm betting there would (or is) a way to cut red tape and streamline the entry process - either unofficially or officially.

If 10,000,000 workers inside our borders had to jump through the legal & financial hoops you describe in order to stay & do their work - they'd simply have to leave. If they did I think you Yuri would want to leave too because of the resulting mess.

Becoming a citizen one thing.
Becoming a sanctioned needed guest worker is & should be a far different matter.

I think our president has thought this through pretty thoroughly before it became such a hot potato of discussion. A Guest Worker Program could work.

Kim:

Against the wishes of some others (who want me to concentrate on more "distinguised" projects in the form of academic and-or news worthy articles), I'm answering you since you do highlight some cogent points which go against your beliefs (surprise, surprise).

Putin is more popular in Ukraine than Yushchenko is in Russia.

Many in Ukraine favor closer ties to Russia and some in that Communist created republic favor outright reunification with Moscow. Now, do you think that Ukraine should be the dominant of the two in such a reunified state?

It's kind of like (though obviously dissimilar) to German reunification resulting in the East German political/economic system dominating that process.

Once again, there was no "70% Orange victory" and China hasn't "taken over" Russian territory.

I read what Mishka said and it's not what Kim states.

Mishka is a great analyst.

Who is Kim?

Oh boy. Apparently Kim's way of engaging in discussion is to shout epithets at everyone he/she disagrees. Unfortunately, Kim has trouble rising above rhetoric. If you don't see the world as he/she does you’re a propagandist, though for whom I have no idea. If you don't see Russia as a neo-USSR you amount to an "enemy of the people". Yet, he/she calls me knee-jerk. Such is the culture of discourse in blogosphere.

Too bad because the problem of Russian civic and ethnic identity is an interesting one and deserves discussion, not rhetorical banter.

Anyway, Kim is looking for linguistic examples while I am comparing concepts of civic and ethnic identity. I personally don’t see how the lack of exact linguistic examples somehow eschews the problem. Perhaps I’m wrong and I would like others to explain the difference to me. That said, I think that there are many examples in the form of any nation state that has a civic identity and multiple ethnic identities.

In regard to the US, while "African-American" is indeed a self ascribed category, the fact that blacks do not simply refer to themselves as "American" shows that the label "American" is viewed as excluding blacks. In fact I would imagine that many blacks see "American" as not the multiethnic inclusive category it purports, but simply to be fully American means to be "white." If this is true, it is because American law has historically excluded blacks from full citizenship in the form of equal protection under the law either formally, ideologically or institutionally. It is clear that the current struggle by mostly Latino immigrants for full recognition if not as citizens, as vital contributors to American society is similar to the one blacks engaged in 40 years ago.

For me this problem is similar to the one presented by russkii and rossiskii. To be considered fully the latter, you have to someway become similar to former.

However, there is room for criticism on this because the comparison between race in the US and Russia isn't exact. Mostly because American concepts of race and ethnicity differ from Russian concepts.

Perhaps a place like France or Germany is a better example because they are nation-states whose civic identity correlates to its historical ethnic identity. These nation-states are based on ethnically homogenous societies. This then raises an important question. Can Turkish immigrants who live in Germany become German? If they obtain German citizenship they may be German in a civic sense but not in an ethnic sense. The same goes for a Tatar in the Russian Federation. They are rossiskii, but they are not russkii. To borrow from Homi Bhabha, the Tatar can almost be rossiskii, but not quite. For this reason: the current Nationality law before the Duma wants to create some congruence between rossiskii and russkii by carving out a special place for the latter in the concept of the former. That is, to be fully rossiskii one must become russkii, which is a foreclosed on a person who may have all the cultural traits of being Russian—speaks Russian with no accent, is fully acculturated in Russia—but does not possess the racial characteristics associated with Russian.

Thank you Alexandra for your kind words about my blog.

A not so great analyst.

I agree with Kim on the last comment 100%. Sad, but true.

In fact, Russians have two completely different words for "Russian" -- one for a Slavic ("russkii" meaning "Russian by race") and one for "not Slavic" ("rossiskii" meaning "Russian by law"). Can you give an example of another country that does this?
English has the same system for many nationalities.

For example, "Uzbek" means an ethnic person of Uzbek ancestry who could be a citizen anywhere (e.g. in Kazakhstan) whereas "Uzbekstani," in English, means a citizen of the modern nation-state of Uzbekistan.

However, this system is now breaking down in common usage. The terms denoting ethnic origins are less often used, supplanted by political terms denoting the nation-state (i.e. "Turkic" vs. "Turkish" and etc.).

"Zaire with Permafrost."

And a massive nuclear arsenal.

Phil Williams, an expert in translational criminal organizations, used to be very fond of saying in the late 1990's that Russia was quickly becoming Columbia with nuclear weapons. By Columbia, he meant that in Russia, too, organized crime and apparatus of political power were becoming enmeshed.

He's the one who coined the term "Columbianization of Russia," which had some currency among policy circles at one time.

Kim,
Mike's statement that Russia is third in the world currently in absorbing immigrants is probably true. According to an RIA-Novosti article I read yesterday, Russia has almost 1/3rd of the number of undocumented/illegal aliens as the U.S., 4 million vs. 12 million (Russia has roughly half the U.S. population over a larger land mass), and a sizeable number of these are probably concentrated in Moscow and St. Petersburg.

That said, the lion's share of the people immigrating into Russia officially through the 1990s were Russians fleeing the Stans' and other former Soviet states. According to Nick Eberstadt of AEI, who we have cited on Russia's demographics (see the post The Dying Nation at the bottom of the Did You Know category), this flow of Russians back to the core of Russia is now turning to a trickle. So what I would like to know is how recently Averko's figure was calculated - last year, or a few years ago?

On the other hand Kim, while you have accused Averko of making outrageous statements, even I don't think powdered sugar is difficult to find in Russia, or even that it was difficult to obtain (as long as you had cash or barter) in Soviet times, what with the trade with Cuba.

While it is fine to challenge someone's sources or facts, I would encourage everyone posting here to refrain from personal attacks.

Kim,

Since you so want a country that has a linguistic distinction like russkii and rossiskii--the French distinction for French Algerians and their descendants--the peid-noir--seems to apply. But I guess to be clear on this discussion, if it is to continue, is for you to explain what you mean by russkii and rossiskii because the reason why I address it as categories and concepts is because I think this is the real center of the problem. The linguistic difference is only at the same time the result and also the reproduction of that problem.

As to your above statement: "If you are saying that IN UZBEKISTAN they have two different words, and one means a citizen because of race and one means a citizen because of law, please say so. And if that is the case, they undoubtedly learned to do that from the USSSR" Actually, the problem of "citizen" and ethnicity/race did not begin with the USSR, but with the Russian Empire, though for the Empire there were no "citizens" only subjects, but the problem was similar. This is the central problem of Geoffrey Hosking's Russia: People and Empire. The USSR by no means solved it, in fact their contradictory nationality policies exacerbated it.

Hey Kim,

Говорю и читаю. So how about quitting with the insulting and patronizing comments and tone that you've been spewing on everyone that has posted comments?

Besides, that I'm done with this "discussion". Not because I don't have more to say about the issue of nationality, race, and citizenship in Russia, but because saying it doesn't result in any meaninful dicourse, just more reductive rhetoric and attacks on my person. I don't have time for such banter.

It is clear from many of the comments that this blog is read by serious people. It is too bad that attempts to reflect that in discussion has been so scuttled by a vocal and patronizing minority who is uninterested in the nuances and complexities of Russian politics, history and society.

I hope that the editors of this site continue and are successful in their attempts to foster serious and professional discussion.

James: I believe you're a little confused.Only "a little"?

The distinction between a term denoting a Slavic Russian from that denoting a non-Slavic Russian citizen may be unique to the Russian language.

But that kind of linguistic distinction has an antecedent and parallels in many other languages and historical traditions of multi-ethnic societies (with one dominant national-ethnic core, be it Ottoman Turks, Germano-Magyars in the Austro-Hungarian Empire).

When the Age of Empires ended in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century and the nation-state came to be seen as an embodiment of a single (to use the German term) "Volk" the vocabularly of citizenship changed, which is largely reflected in the modern usage of languages like English (where, for example, qualifiers are necessary such as "ethnic" Germans (Volkdeutsch) as opposed to German "citizens" (i.e. citizens of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland). And What "German" (Deutsch) means in today's (again) multi-ethnic Europe is something everyone is trying to figure out.

And if that is the case, they undoubtedly learned to do that from the USSSRThat's a rather circular reasoning.

It is a bit disappointing that this debate has fallen into the pitfall of conflating identity politics and the problems of racism, when they are actually such distinct categories. It is universally recognised that the collapse of the Soviet Union pressed the problem of identifying the contours of national identity upon the Russian people. Indeed, as nationality policy in non-Russian Soviet republics was designed to define identity for the dependent republics, Russianness long remained an undefined quality. It is for that reason that Russians can hardly be said to be the moral beneficiaries of a Russki and Rossiskii distinction. As it happens, identification in modern Russia is much more complex than some outside observers might perceive. Associations are made by Russian people to ethnic Russian identity, to the Soviet legacy, to the pre-Soviet past, to religious agglomerations, and so forth. None of this has an overtly racist quality, because it is primarily concerned with defining one's own identity. To Kim's question about whether other countries have the same distinction, I would point no further than Britain, where people characterise themselves as English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish. (It is only Americans that make the mistake of believing that England and Britain are the same thing, which offends several million people). Curiously, it is only latterly that in some quarters, English identity has been adopted as a badge by certain racist segments of the population, but this is incidental rather than caused by the existence of national categories within Britain.
That is to say that it is a huge leap to infer that racism, and its violent manifestations, are a direct and provable consequence of Russia's problematic identity crisis (of which the famous Rossiskii debate is a symptom). Without suggesting for a moment that racism isn't a virulent scourge across the whole of Russia (it is), we should be extremely diffident of anybody who attempts to make the argument that Russians are pathologically that way disposed. Such positions are tendentious and inflammatory, and, ironically enough, profoundly racist and bigotted in of themselves.
The attacks we have read about in Russia, I would suggest, are the products of ignorance and brutalised poverty, as we see in Britain, France, America and any country I could care to think of. What is truly regrettable is that the Russian state does not appear to be taking a strong enough position on the problem. They are almost certainly too scared to discipline any members of their police force over the matter and have shown themselves unwilling to address to matter in any institutional forum. As some of the views here attest, this has resulted in an appallingly innacurate perception of Russia as a home for brutish skinheads rather than as a hospitable and endearing country, gruff shopkeepers notwithstanding.
On a final note, I happen to think that the difficulty of getting a visa to Russia is greatly exaggerated. While on paper this is true, systematic bribery has effectively made doing the paperwork a question of paying the right price. Conversely, I have it on good authority that about 90% of Russians who apply for tourist visas to the UK are eventually accepted, which may be even lower than the acceptance rate for tourist visa applications to Russia. So in actual fact the truth is a bit rosier than many people on both sides of the fence believe.
Much scaremongering in this respect is carried out by the reprehensible American Chamber of Commerce in Moscow, which routinely circulates largely false stories about new proposals for tightening work permit regulations in the country. Curiously enough, though, the details of these phantom regulations always seems to bear an uncanny similarity to the regulations that Russians have had to abide by for the last fifteen years.

This piece must be a fair description of the red tape a Russian professional has to go through to get a US business visa. Subjecting your long-term business/educational plans to the whim of an entry-level embassy employee is an unpleasant necessity. Yet every sovereign country has a right to use whatever procedure it wishes to determine who is eligible for entry. This is a necessary implication of sovereignty. Whether the visa application procedure for professionals has anything to do with illegal immigration I'm not sure. It interesting, though, that while the bureaucratic obstacles an applicant must surmount to get into the US are not reflective of the relatively low level of bureaucratic resistance most Americans encounter at home, the tribulations of an American seeking entry into Russia would be adequate to the unpleasant experience of millions of Russians at the hands of their own bureacracy.

BTW, the author's claim that volunteering is non-existent in Russia is an unfair exaggeration. Volunteer groups may be few and barely visible (check out this site for one) but they are there and need help from people like Yuri more than their American counterparts.

Kim: there were protests in Moscow when the NGO law was discussed in the Duma. They worked to a degree: eventually, the version that passed the Duma was less draconian than the first draft. It is probably too late now to protest. Instead, middle- and upper-class Russians should donate to NGOs they trust to replace, in part, the foreign funding the law has cut off. This is what I am going to do.

Kim,

Such tremendously misplaced vehemence and hatred for a culture that is different. It must be terrifically rewarding to see the world in such black and white terms. You never have to waste time with thinking - it has all been laid out for you back in the 1950s by Senator McCarthy. That is a tremendous time saver, no doubt.

Meanwhile, the rest of us plow stubbornly ahead, actually engaging a Russian in conversation, asking them what they think and listening and trying to understand their answers. It takes time, to be sure - it is much slower than imposing your own (obviously superior, of course ... you're American) point of view.

Getting back to the original topic of visa's and immigration - I do think the Russian visa rules directed towards Americans are based upon a common misperception among Russians, that the US Government singles them out for difficult treatment. I believe this to be a misperception, simply because Russians have to follow essentially the same Visa rules as most nations in coming to the US. US bureacracy is a dumb and slow machine, but rarely is it a personal or vindictive machine. I think further evidence that Russians are not singled out for special treatment by the US is the fact that more Russians immigrate to the US than any other European country. I think in terms of total immigrants to the US, Russia ranks around #7 among nations. (I'm going by memory, so forgive me if my ranking is a bit off.)

To finish with a point about the uniqueness of certain words in Russian, such as "russkii" and "rossiskii" ... many languages have words and concepts behind those words that are unique when compared to other nations. I don't think it is a reason to condemn them out of hand. Even if these words symbolize concepts with which we as a culture do not agree, I still question the merits of destroying that which is not exactly like you. Critical - sure. But the venom spewed by a certain member of this forum goes beyond the rational and firmly into the realm of the irrational. Next she will be calling for disemboweling the godless heathens because they have letters that don't exist in English and they can't properly pronounce "th".

I also have come to believe that our concept of "American" is unique in the world. Someone can immigrate to the US and live here and be thought of as "American" - particularly true if they gain their citizenship. I don't think anyone here would argue that idea, we accept it pretty readily. But I don't think this is true of any other nation on earth ... maybe Canada or Australia? For example, I don't think I would ever be considered "British" no matter how long I lived in the UK, etc. And as Sean rightfully points out, many, many nations make clear ethnic distinctions within their political borders. Ethnicity existed for hundreds if not thousands of years before organized political states as we understand them today. Even in nations like Germany, ethnicity such as Bavarian and Hessian carry meaning - not to mention Germany's words and special treatment for Auslander such as Turks, etc. Even 2nd and 3rd generation of these peoples in such nations are not given equal status. So there is at least one other example ... Auslander vs. Deutsch.

And this isn't to say that such treatment is right (which is what you quickly seem to jump upon) ... far from it. But it certainly isn't right to launch into fire and brimstone condemnation of almost every other country in the world either.

I also would dismiss rather quickly the idea that Russia is alone in the world with no allies. You can bet that if push came to shove, most of Europe would side with Russia - the US offers demagoguery and Russia offers heat in the winter. Further, Russia has endeared itself again with much of the Middle East due to weapons sales. They have new agreements with both China and Japan to provide natural gas as well and enjoy rather good relations with China. Perhaps you forgot that this is the Year of Russia in China?

In any case, it surely is interesting to read some of these rants from Zigfeld. Sorry that I was late to arrive to the show. Her posts elsewhere have been equally enlightening. Little did I know that my Sports Illustrated was soft-core pornography! Those wanton Russian female tennis players, looking all sexy in short skirts and tops that expose their devilish belly buttons! It is shameful now that I have seen the light. No more watching Gabrielle Reese either .. I'm sworn off that decadent exploitative fare. I guess I need to rethink my trips to the local nudist beach as well - I had no idea I was engaging in hard-core pornography! I kept waiting to hear the wakka-wakka-wakka soundtrack in the background, but it never came ...

Because of Russia's harsh dictatorial policies and crude underdevelopment, foreigners from developed countries simply have no desire to live in Russia.

This Brit would move there in a heartbeat if he could. And I currently live in Dubai, which is not exactly a hell-hole.

[T]he tribulations of an American seeking entry into Russia would be adequate to the unpleasant experience of millions of Russians at the hands of their own bureacracy.,/em>

Alexie doesn't say that much, but when he does he is right. That is absoultely true.

I am a legal non-immigrant in the same situation. However, I do not bash illegal immigrants because the US legal immigration system is worse than Soviet central planning farms. If you want it legally there is always a way to get stuck in bureaucratic limbo. They actually make fun of you. The government hillbillies treat wealthy, highly educated professionals as if they were rubbish. They are not accountable to anyone. On top of this, they take a sizable chunk of my paycheck to fund the social security payments of millions of lazy fellas. They are shooting the US in the foot. So long, I am moving to London. At least there I am considered a human being.

“If I were in Russia I wouldn’t be able to ski - it costs $3,000 and you have to go to Austria, versus $40 on Mt. Baker. I wouldn’t have the time to produce music, and it’s more expensive to make music in Russia since you have to fly to London or Los Angeles to master quality recordings, and no one buys legal, non-pirated CD’s. Moscow is such a busy town, there’s no time for music anyway.”

This is not true. Either this person is lying like that Russophobe lady, or he doesn’t see Russia outside of Moscow. Ever hear of the Urals, Mt. Elbrus, Altai, Kamchatka? My extreme type snowboarder and skier friends happily go there every winter and don’t spend anything close to 3,000 dollars. As for recording music, I never found it to be that big of a problem, Ufa, Yekaterinburg, Talyatti all have quality recording studios, and I am sure Moscow has no shortage of them. I get the feeling many people want their recordings mastered in London just so they can write in the liner notes “mastered in London.”

To Ms Russophobe, Russia does have an equivalent to Permanent Residence (http://www.waytorussia.net/business/legal-status.html). I have never found the process of petitioning for reentry humiliating, expensive or risky, instead I looked at it as a chance to see Tallinn. I guess I just don’t understand all the lying about Russia that is going on here.