Yuri Mamchur writes from a typically Russian-nationalist perspective -- mixing in partial historical truths while neglecting to mention important details. For example, why are the Russian's demanding market values of Ukraine while not applying the same demands to say, Armenia and the last dictatorship in Europe, Belarus? (We'll even grant setting aside for the moment the issue of Russia's closest allies being pariah states, such as Belarus and Iran -- to whom it Russia supplies nuclear technology.) What Mr. Mamchur says about Sevastopil is irrelevant: if the Russian Navy doesn't want to pay the rent, they can (and should) leave. To imply that the Crimea ever historically "belonged" to Russia is a convenient rhetorical absurdity to stop further conversation. And, for Mr. Mamchur to raise the veiled non-starter by playing upon "the new democratic government of Ukraine" while not reminding reader's of Russia's increasingly non-democratic regime (let's set aside the wanton destruction of Chechnia) is the height of hypocrisy. The Russian Federation, which is 11 time zone across and which comprises over 110 national and sub-national groups, is better understood through Karl Marx's characterization of Russia as "the prison house of nations." Russia (and especially Putin) remain stung by their blatant interference in Ukrainian elections and in "losing" Ukraine. THAT is what is driving Russia, and not, as Mr. Mamchur so disingenuously asserts, objective market conditions. Finally, while the typical American may not understand the nuances of Mr. Mamchur's parents being "high officials in the former Soviet government," THIS American, who has lived in Ukraine since before the collapse of the Russian Empire, knows well what privileges Mr. Mamchur was accorded, why Mamchur himself stings at the loss of Russia's empire, and hence why his article is less than objective.

Dear Alex Sich,

I’ll address each issue you raised one by one. First of all, my father is Western Ukrainian, and my grandparents live in Kiev. I grew up spending summers there, and made my first real money working for one of the most successful Ukrainian music companies at that time, Lazer Records.

Belarus and Armenia are not joining NATO yet, and they are suburbs of Russia, plus no one talks (and demonstrates) about great democratic changes in these countries, versus the free market spirited Ukraine. By the way I fully support the new Ukrainian government and have severely criticized Putin.

Putin’s regime? Are people getting shot in the streets and put in jail? Am I being watched by the Russian government? No, I’m friends with Russian Consul in Seattle, and no one has ever mentioned anything to me about possible reprisal against me, my family, or my friends (including CNN and Russia Today journalists and executives) for reporting bad stuff about Putin. Khodorkovsky is in jail for appropriating 40% of the world’s oil reserves, milking the cow, putting money in off shore accounts, and then trying to sell the only source of Russia’s permanent income (oil) to Americans. However, I do not support the way he was prosecuted.

Please read my article about Russian NGOs, to learn more about the new legislation that will limit a lot of crooks from stealing foreign money, or giving support to political candidates from abroad.

Talking about Crimea, I want to state that Russian Empire spilled a lot of blood and money defending this piece of land in the 19th century from the Turks, who were supported then by the mighty British Empire.

Talking about the "suppression" of the Chechen people, I would refer you to my articles about the insane Jihadists who prevent peace, who have been killing children and beheading 18 year old Russian conscripts on a daily basis for years. I have many links to these disgusting butcheries if you dare to watch.

As for my career and my family: I got my visa that allows me to work only 2 months ago. This is my 6th American visa, and it is very hard to live by myself in a foreign country, while doing a lot of work for Discovery Institute and Russia Blog. Dear Alex, I sleep on the floor in my apartment, because I can’t afford a bed yet while I’m producing my second CD. Where did I get the money? I volunteered at the YMCA Camp Seymour every year, since it is the first place that hosted me on exchange program in 2000. I was a counselor to a great 6 year old kid, whose family invited me over for a dinner and loved my music. We are the best of friends now, and the money I used for the music project will be returned back to them with interest.

My family and government positions? My father wrote for the Red Star Newspaper and was in charge of many departments from his late 20s. Later he was speechwriter, then spokesman, then Chief of Communications for the Defense Ministry. He worked with Grachev, Yeltsin and others. He is an honest man, and would not accept bribes, that’s why our “privileged” family didn’t have food on the table, when I was 13. He quit and went into private business, doing PR and elections campaigns. My mother is a doctor, PhD, and she is in charge of the Moscow and Moscow Suburbs health department, supervising schools and children’s camps.

I love Russia, Ukraine and America for variety of different reasons. Please call me at 206-292-0401 if you would like to further discuss these matters.

Mr. Sich:

You should take Yuri up on his offer to talk this over with you. I had the pleasure of speaking with him and he comes across as a very down to earth and open minded person.

How is Ukraine more "democratric" than Russia? How less democratic (if at all) is Belarus when compared to Georgia and Montenegro?

As for Crimea, up until 1954, it was a part of Russia. Since 1954, it remains a Russocentrically inclined region within Ukraine's Communist drawn boundaries.

Which came first - the chicken or the egg? Russia responded to the foreign meddling of some not so Russia friendly NGOs who were backing Yushchenko.

Should the U.S. give back California, acquired about the same time and for similar reasons? I don't think so, though of course Russia and Ukraine should come to some compromise whereby Russia pays more for Sebastopal if Ukraine will agree to pay market rates for gas - along with everyone else in the former USSR, including Belarus.

Charles:

Crimea was only taken out of Russia in 1954 and at a time when Russia and Ukraine were part of the same nation.

If anti-Russian west Ukrainian nationalists truly denounce Communism, then why do they support the Soviet drawn boundaries of Ukraine?

For that matter, no one asked Moldova to become a part of the USSR in 1939. At the same time, no one asked the Russocentric Trans-Dniester region to be incorporated into the Communist created Moldavian SSR. If Moldova has a right to secede from the Soviet legacy, then why doesn't Trans-Dniester.

My approach to these matters are very much overlooked within the American foreign policy establishment.

First, spare me the heart-rending allusions to being too confrontational by dragging family details into the discussion. Rather, try addressing the points by stepping outside your own shoes for a moment.

Second, the “western Ukrainian” geographical origins of your father is irrelevant to the point -- just as walking into a garage doesn’t make one a car, living in western Ukrainian doesn’t make you Ukrainian. However, more to the point, you know more than any of the Americans listening in that Russians were transplanted into western Ukraine to rule over what was left after the decimation in the wake of the Nazis AND the Russians. Especially helpful to the “cause” of dilution were mixed-ethnic marriage with one of the partners Russian. Today, the term we use is “ethnic cleansing.” While, admittedly, I don’t know your father personally and therefore won’t comment on him in that respect, I will mention what YOU do know VERY well: what it took to become a “high-ranking” Soviet official –- especially as a department head for the Soviet Army’s flagship newspaper, Red Star. Chief of Communications for the Defense Ministry? You know very well what that means. Are you trying to convince me or yourself about the “professional” honesty of your father? The rest of your family details, while interesting, are also irrelevant to the point. And, if you "love" Russia so much, why have you left her for the U.S.?

Third, you criticized Putin? Really? Please provide a reference to where you criticized his two “non-political” visits to Ukraine only a few months (weeks, in fact) before the Presidential elections in Ukraine last Nov-Dec. Also, I would be willing to put down a very substantial amount of money that you would NOT try to criticize Putin from inside Russia itself –- especially as a Russian citizen. It’s easy to criticize him from ten or so time zones away. Let’s see you put your money where your mouth is and do it in Moscow. To imply that indigenous reporters are not accosted (some, in fact, poisoned), or that media organizations aren’t harassed is simply ridiculous. Why not challenge the “reports” you receive and find out for yourself? Your NGO reference is also selectively inattentive (as only one example) to the plight of religious groups, where outright persecution of Evangelicals, but especially Catholics, is out of control. Try visiting the Keston site for an earful. Also, if for NGO’s “stealing money” is the alleged issue, then why not use investigative means rather than blanket-discriminatory laws to reign in those alleged abuses? Finally, is every Chechen who opposes Russian occupation an “insane Jihadist” or just the ones who oppose the summary human rights abuses of Russian troops?

Fourth, thank you for including the word “empire” when applying it to Russia in the19th century. But this still doesn’t address the finer points of which ethnic groups the Russians used as canon-fodder to spill blood in fighting the war. Also, you perpetuate the Soviet myth that the Crimea “belonged” to Russia in the first place. I find it laughable you used the precisely Soviet (read: Russian) term “defending this piece of land” as it if was Russian to defend. Please, peddle such Soviet (Russian) historiography elsewhere.

Fifth, anonymous wrote “in 1954 and at a time when Russia and Ukraine were part of the same nation,” which betrays an inability to distinguish between the terms “country” and “nation.” The proto-state called Kyivan-Rus (actually, more akin to a huge medieval trading company) adopted Byzantine Christianity as the state religion in 988 – which is 169 years before Moscow is mentioned for the first time in chronicles. Even if one accepts discredited Soviet Historiography, Kyiv celebrated the 1500th anniversary of its “founding” in 1983 – which makes it nearly twice as old as what is called Russia today. For Russia to have any claims -- territorial, cultural, historic, linguistic, etc., would be as ridiculous as the U.S. claiming England or Wales for itself since “London is the mother of all American cities.”

All this is not to say Ukraine is a dreamland of democracy: it is not. However, there’s a huge difference between a country trying to get away from the Soviet (again, read: Russian) past while struggling (and making mistakes along the way) to overcome the legacy (in some cases) of hundreds of years of the worst influences of Russia, and a country like Russia which is by its very nature paranoid about the West. Ukraine is not re-establishing statues to Dzerzhinksy in Kyiv, or to Stalin in other cities. Why does Russia? Why not just put up a statue to Hitler in Berlin if everyone loves to hide behind the conversation-ending fascade of “let’s not forget the past”? My points on the gas question are buoyed by the deeper historical issues -- and these cannot be separated from each other. Until Russia gets her act together (and there are now serious people who believe there will be no Russia as we know it within 10-15 years), she is doomed – and not just for the reasons you, Yuri, outline in your “dying nation” blog posting of 01 June. If this turns out to be the case, I suggest the rest of us should get out of the way of the toppling monster: her self-inflicted paranoia of the West and panging for a lost empire will ultimately do her in...

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of the territory of western Ukraine formerly Polish, given to the USSR as the result of the Hitler-Stalin Pact? The point is that everyone in the region has some sort of claim or grievance, I think we need to move on.

Yeah, and BTW – my grand grandpa was a Polish officer; what would be your roots and place of residence, Mr. Sich?

Dear Alex,

I’m sorry you can’t stay away from dragging my family into this deal. 80% of my family still lives in Western Ukraine, and my dad didn’t speak Russian until middle school. He took off with his career after graduation from Lviv Military University, then Germany as a perfect GPA graduate. In Germany he met my mom, whose parents were serving in the military. Mother’s dad is also Ukrainian, though from eastern Ukraine. Given your strong feelings about Ukraine, I’m not sure if he qualifies as a Ukrainian, but he enjoys speaking the language and reading the literature. As per my dad’s professionalism – he has always been an excellent journalist/writer, and used to receive 3,000 letters from readers daily!

As for the fact that I choose to live in America – yes, Russia is dying, and is trying to grab anything that could return it to superpower status, which is, I believe, impossible for the foreseeable future. While grabbing things around, it’s pulling others (journalists and natural gas money from Ukraine). I believe that there is no conspiracy and no coherent regime. I believe that there is chaos. I hate Putin for a different reason – have you ever spent 5 hours in a traffic jam because his motorcade was driving in your way? Last time I was in Moscow and got stuck in traffic for 2 hours, I showed Putin’s car a finger, while beeping as loud and long as I could. But you know what – I was the only car who did it! And that is the biggest reason I am proud to live in the U.S.A.

Russians overall are very ambivalent about the way things are; you have to really torture the Russian nation to make it revolt. I’m very liberal in the conservative way of appreciating freedoms, opportunities and self respect. I believe it’s the Ukrainian blood that has contributed to my opposition to Putin’s “regime”. And while living in Russia, I realized that speaking against Putin is not going to change anything. No one cares what you say! Like I said – there’s chaos, a surreal “free” market, where only money rules. If you are in the way of someone’s interests – you get poisoned or shot (Paul Khlebnikov for example). If you are little Alex Sich or Yuri Mamchur – no one cares.

Why am I in America? 1) I love nature and have allergies – Moscow is a horribly expensive and polluted place to live (though a great place to visit). 2) I compose music and it means a lot to me – read today’s post on music. 3) I love working with kids – I can’t afford to do this in Russia, Moscow is way too expensive and jobs with kids are way underpaid; in America I can afford volunteering and finding time for piano lessons. 4) I want to build a big family, and Russia is very unsafe, dishonest and expensive, I don’t know a single Russian family with 4 kids – I know plenty of American families with 4 kids and more. 5) I enjoy the Protestant churches (which I discovered only this year). 6) if I hadn’t received my H1B visa, I would’ve gone to Kiev, because I prefer it over Moscow.

Now, did you find word “Putin” or “regime” in the paragraph above? Putin is helpless and hopeless, because he is the president of the nation that is set in its corrupt and suicidal ways. Two very pious Christian Western Ukrainian immigrants living here in Seattle, who came over 6 years ago told me the other day: “Only someone good like Stalin can fix Russia today”.
I have very wealthy and very poor friend in Russia and Ukraine – they like their lifestyles and don’t care for the much easier American way of life. I’ve had 10 friends who could have obtained visas and started living in America – they hated it – because it’s not corrupt enough!

Again, you can’t change anything just bashing Putin, or educating old folks. I believe the only hope for Russia is its youth; bring young Russians to America or Britain and let them see how and why freedom works. That’s exactly what happened in Russia in 1825 – the young Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian. soldiers saw France and the rest of Europe and wanted a change back home. However, it didn’t happen. Not just because of tsar, but because of the wealthy aristocracy and the Russian Orthodox Church, who were afraid of losing their dominance – so it is today with the oligarchs.

Again, Putin isn’t good, but he is the only option available. The wealthy Russians who could make a difference (Abramovich, Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky) made their choice - they are the ones who put Putin in charge! I don’t know where you are from Alex, and if you have ever been to Russia (Moscow and the countryside), but Russia is a very unique organism, which self regulates a lot. And a lot of disasters happening in Russia today should be blamed on Yeltsin, Gorbachev, oligarchs, and the Russian people, who tolerates all of the above and votes for more of that.

Why should western Ukraine have a greater claim to Kiev than Moscow when the first mentioned was separated from the ancient Russian capital (Kiev) for centuries? Over that time of separation, western Ukraine developed a different: Christian sect (Uniate), dialect (which easily qualifies as a different language from "canon" Ukrainian, Russian and Surzhyk) and architecture from the Kievan Rus legacy of which modern day Russia is very much a part of.

Russia expanded just like America did. California is as much a part of America as New York. I will grant you all that noticeable differences devoloped on the territories of what's now known as Russia and Ukraine. However, there's no denying the Russocentric passions of many in Donbas, Crimea and (albeit a lesser extent) central Ukraine. Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are arguably more interrelated with each other (linguistically, religiously and ethnically) than England, Scotland and Wales are with themselves.

Ancient Russia is often referred to as Kievan Rus and never as Kievan Uke. Ukrainian national identity is a historically recent (within the past 200 years) development.

The Trident, Ukraine's adopted coat of arms was the emblem of the Riuriks who moved the capital north. Russia under Ivan the Terrible continued to utilize the Trident as the family coat of arms. The Romanovs became the de facto successor to the Riuriks shortly after Ivan the Terrible's reign.

Mr. Sich has a problem with Russians in western Ukraine. How about west Ukrainian nationalists going to Crimea for the purpose of stirring up anti-Russocentric passions among Tatars?

Under Communism - Ukraine's borders expanded to an all time high. The Ukrainian language was utilized in the Ukrainian Soviet, with the Communists having attempted to linguistically Ukrainianize the Russian speaking Donbas region in the late 19 twenties (this is probably why Surzhyk, a mix of Russian and Ukrainian is spoken by many today). Up to 70% of Ukraine's citizenry willingly speak Russian as the preferred tongue.

In Russia, I can name a great number of people who openly criticize Putin (often times unfairly) in Russian mass media. He's a popularly elected leader unlike Bush; the latter being selected via the Electoral College after losing the popular vote.

Michael, Bush did win the popular vote in 2004, and per your earlier post discussing anti-Semitism in Russia, Joe Lieberman was the Democratic nominee for VP in 2000.

Charles:

Are you sure about Bush winning the popular vote over Gore in 04?

Your reference of Lieberman doesn't contradict my point of there having never been an American president or vice president of known Jewish background.

Averko:

The imperial past which you so desperately long for is dead, and the pro-Russian spin you weave into your statements can do nothing about it. I’ve noticed you’ve gained some notoriety on the web for your anti-democratic, pro-Russian opposition to the Orange Revolution, which leads one to wonder whether you are a mouthpiece for Gleb Pavlovsky. The anti-democratic forces still lingering in Moscow, Minsk, Tashkent, and elsewhere are merely the putrid stench of Russian imperial sensibilities soon to be committed to the dustbin of history. (See today’s balanced WSJ article: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007694.) One point in particular is a howler: you claim eastern Ukraine is more Russocentric. Even if that were correct (which it is not, and which nicely betrays an inability to distinguish sentiments here on the ground vs. your personal presuppositions from many time zones away), maybe you’ve conveniently forgotten it was Russian nationalism and paranoia that largely animated Stalin, Kaganovich and the communists in “lovingly” obliterating millions of Ukrainians -- in central and EASTERN Ukraine -- by means of an artificial famine... leaving eastern Ukraine to be re-populated by Russians. To address the outright BS by which you insult the intelligence of the readers in your remaining points would be a waste of time. Rather, better to be silent before the irrational: let it only hear its own voice.

In Russia, I can name a great number of people who openly criticize Putin (often times unfairly) in Russian mass media. He's a popularly elected leader unlike Bush; the latter being selected via the Electoral College after losing the popular vote.

Anytime someone makes a statement like this, my BS meter goes up very, very high.

I find it troubling that Yuri is getting an "assist" from a person who makes this kind of statement.

Yuri:

Okay, I’ll back down... just a bit. However, it is not I who dragged your family into this: remember, I started with the gas issue, and then you brought in your father… and continued with more family details in your last posting. To provide the juicy details of your family over and over, and then attribute to me “dragging my family into this deal,” well… that’s a bit disingenuous.

I sympathize with your plight of leaving Russia... and I don’t know if I’d do anything different if I were in the same position. It will be very difficult for us to leave Ukraine after having lived here for so long. I applaud most of all your desire to have a large family. We are blessed with five.

You “enjoy” Protestant churches… Well, don’t necessarily abandon the faith of your forefathers: you should take the opportunity to “re-discover” the depth and beauty of the eastern (Byzantine) liturgical traditions. Just because something is shiny and new and energetic doesn’t necessarily make it theologically correct. You as a musician should know all the more the beauty of the eastern liturgical music. The ironic thing is, of course, that you are probably better off in the States delving into eastern theology than in calcified Russia.

I won’t attempt to address the many issues Michael Averko brings up: his position is clear, but slanted and lacks seriousness. Better to stay silent before the irrational: let it only hear its own voice.

My bona fides: I have a Ph.D. in nuclear engineering from MIT (specialized in the Chornobyl Accident), a Masters in Soviet Studies from Harvard University, and will soon complete a Masters in Thomistic Studies (philosophy of science concentration). I’ve been in and across Russia many times (including seven weeks at Akadamgorodok in Novosibirsk) Lithuania, Belarus, Lativa, Georgia, Uzbekistan (WAY up into the mountains (Tien Shen) including a visit to the Maidanak observatory), and, of course, all up and down and across Ukraine – having lived several years each in L’viv, Kyiv, and Slavutych.

Khrystos Razhdaeitsia!

Alex Sich is actually a very nice person, who sent me his family Christmas card, and let me know that he really cares about Ukraine and Russia. Merry Christmas Ukraine!

James:

While I disagree with Yuri on a number of points (my Borg mannerisms notwithstanding!) I'm convinced that he's deeply committed to getting at the truth and to an amicable agreement (if such a thing is possible) for all. (I claim no monopoly on the truth.) So, I think you may possibly have misunderstood his statement on criticisms (in Russia) of Putin. Nevertheless, I would agree with your BS meter: it is Averko's statements (on this site as well as others) that are more troubling.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

James,

Sorry for getting to your comment so late, I’m not sure if you ever read it. Mike Averko is right about Putin’s popularity. I’m not saying that he is the best for Russia or for the Russians, but he is very popular, and he has been “honestly” (technically) elected. It wasn’t Putin’s money, but it was Abramovich’s and Berezovsky’s money that put Putin in Putin’s position. Too bad Khodorkovsky didn’t pitch in, when it was the right time to do so… (just a joke). Anyway, regular Russian worker in Siberia doesn’t have the insights and information that we do, and Putin is a good “strong” leader, who is sharp with the “foreign invaders”, and who goes to church for Christmas service. Just try to think outside of the American box, and you’ll find man reasons why Russians find Putin attractive.

Messrs. Na & Sich:

The suggestion that Russians benefitted under Communism at the expense of others ranks with the greatest BS to be found when discussing Russia related matter.

Under Communism, many Russians suffered at the hands of non-Russians and vice versa.

FYI - Unlike some others, I'm on no agenda driven payroll. I free-lance in the field making an occasional buck here and there (right now, I'm negitiating a possible column with a major English language Russian based news and opinion source). As for Gleb Pavlovsky, at this site there's an article of mine which isn't exactly complimentary towards him.

Viktor Yanukovych's high popularity in Ukraine and his support for closer ties with Russia is a slam dunk on your anti-Russian sentiment.

Donbas has been Russocentric for centuries. Crimea is 150% Russocentric. In central Ukraine (Kiev-Poltava), a number of Russocentric people voted for Yushchenko. You can be sure that a great many of them now have reservations about having done so.

Your simplistic suggestion of Russocentric equalling anti-democratic further reveals your ignorance.

Averko:

Charles:

Are you sure about Bush winning the popular vote over Gore in 04?

Your reference of Lieberman doesn't contradict my point of there having never been an American president or vice president of known Jewish background.

So what? We have had a Jewish VP candidate, Jewish Senators, Congressmen, etc. etc. Anti-Semitism is not entirely dead in the U.S. to be sure, but our citizens of Jewish faith get far fairer shake than those just about anywhere else (excepting Israel, of course).

He's [Putin is] a popularly elected leader unlike Bush; the latter being selected via the Electoral College after losing the popular vote.

Why did I raise "B.S. meter" on this earlier?

First, as I stated earlier President Bush won both the electoral and popular votes in 2004.

Second, American democracy is arguably the cleanest and most open in the world. Your reference to "selected via the Electoral College" is procedurally factual, but does not take note of the crucial fact that the Electoral College itself is ultimately popularly voted. EC is a convention, not a tool for "selecting" of a president by the elite as you imply (or is actually the case in many Third World countries).

You are also nominally factual about Putin being "popularly elected." Ah, but "popular" does not equate to democratic (or republican with a lowercase d).

Russia's electoral, political and media environment is deeply flawed, though perhaps not fatally so. Those in power hold enormous, many would say dangerous, advantages well beyond your average perks that incumbency brings in most openly democratic countries.

Furthermore, whatever one may contest about Putin's allegedly "popular" election, it's clear that his actions since attaining power have become increasingly dictatorial and have clearly concentrated power in his hands and in those of his cronies.

The fact that you would imply as that sentence of yours clearly does, that somehow President Bush is illegitimate because of the Electoral College system, but Putin is legitimate because he won the last vote (so did Kim Jong-Il, so what?) tells me that you are either 1) stupidly blind to the reality of how politics work in the two countries (which I doubt) or, more likely, 2) you have a certain, persistent agenda that distorts the reality of the situation in both the U.S. and Russia.

Yuri:

Anyway, regular Russian worker in Siberia doesn’t have the insights and information that we do... just try to think outside of the American box, and you’ll find man reasons why Russians find Putin attractive.

Nothing uniquely "American" about wanting a free and fair environment in which information (even about political leaders) is openly available to the public.

Just because Putin won the votes doesn't make his victory "democratic." Self-determination requires open and free sources of information. This vital condition is clearly missing (or at best flawed) in Russia, which makes his electoral victory, a highly flawed, undemocratic one.

I must say that I am continually distressed by the apologist view that ignorant foreigners demand (or deserve) a tyrannical "strong" leader. What they need is transparency and multiple sources of information (and power). That's pretty universal, not "American."

Averko again:

Unlike some others, I'm on no agenda driven payroll... Your simplistic suggestion of Russocentric equalling anti-democratic further reveals your ignorance.

First of all, "unlike some others.. agenda driven payroll" sounds suspiciously like a cheapshot. Remember that ad hominem is a sign of a weak argument.

Secondly, "agenda-driven" does not require payroll. Unpaid hacks can be just as agenda-driven as the most higly-paid and sophisticated of commentators.

Thirdly, I can't speak for others, but I do not recall equating "Russo-centric" with "anti-democratic." But historically, the two have often traveled the same road, which I guess is an allegorical way of saying that many, but by no means all, Russo-centric types have been apologists for Russia's anti-democratic habits and political culture.

Na

In relation to your last post, you're factually right on one point pertaining to Bush winning the popular vote in 04.

Your other points aren't in sync with reality.

As per your "BS meter," I reference some of your comments.

In America - Republicans and Democrats have a stranglehold monopoly over the American body politic. Now, you might say that this is the will of the people. Such logic applies to Russia.

When compared to America - Russian politics has many more political parties playing influential roles.

It's a statistical fact that under Putin's presidency, the number of independent media outlets has INCREASED in Russia.

Here's some fact based commentary pertaining to this post:

PUTIN REEXAMINED
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/8375-25.cfm

IMPRESSIONS OF RUSSIAN TELEVISION
http://english.intelligent.ru/cgi-bin/loadtext.pl?id=2287&file=articles/text_e0028.htm

Democracy in its currently understood definition is something relatively new on the world stage. In its hey day, ancient Russia (Kievan Rus) was known to be among the more democratically inclined places in Europe. A few centuries later and with Novgorod as its capital, Russia was arguably the most democratic part of Europe. In 1905, a parliament (Duma) was introduced to Russia.

My Russocentric views (which I believe to be pretty much shared by most Russians) are detailed at this link:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@390.PsKgiHM5EhF.4@.77480649/1356

I challenge anyone to show where I'm wrong.

what are the prices of property per sq.meter in Lativa and Lithuania